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2016 Fender Jag-Stang?
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iCEByTes
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Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 4210
Location: Brasil , Curitiba

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robroe wrote:
How does anyone know what Kurt's was made of? It had 13 layers of blue fuckin paint all over it


his luthier gived a interview. he replaced the humbucker that fender put to a JB

http://www.kurtsequipment.com/


Quote:
"The resulting instrument has an alder body, plus a 24-inch
scale maple neck with a rosewood fretboard and vintage-style
fretwire. At Cobain's request, Brooks used stock Mustang
hardware from Japan, where the guitars are still produced (32)
(according to Nirvana guitar tech Earnie Bailey, the bridge
was later changed to a Tune-O-Matic (41)). The neck pickup
is a single-coil Texas Special, which was originally designed as
a bridge pickup for Fender's Stevie Ray Vaughan model. The
bridge pickup is a Dimarzio H-3 Humbucker."


them they made a cheap knock off
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Fran
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't believe all that Iceman. I used to hang out with Kurdtz, shown him loads of chords and how to skin up.
He never used Ernie Ball strings because I put him onto Rotosounds. Told him the Beatles used them, he liked stuff like that.
But yeah, going off on a tangent now.
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I got a stomach ache. Anyone got any heroin? Or like a gun or something?

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Maybe i'll sell my internet. It's lost its fun since i already beat it twice.
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Doog
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bet that bridge position still sounds like arse
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Darth Stang
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurt hasnt posted here for a while, is he on tour again?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth Stang wrote:
kurt hasnt posted here for a while, is he on tour again?


Lololol

I'd totally get one. Fuck the haters.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an interesting businesss model fender have. Sell a jagstang in 1997. Then stop. Sell a jag stang in 2003 then stop. Close down Japan and lay off all the workers then make a lower cost jagstand in Mexico. For a market of maybe 100 people.

It's I truiging all the Low cost crap fender has been churning out, pawn series blacktops classic vibe etc. It's almost like they are making it just for folks to take photos off. Then on the other spectrum you have 12,000 dollar custom shop George teles

It would have been an interesting spreadsheet that they had back in the 90s when they were justifying building the Mexico factory instead of rolling with Japan.
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Mad-Mike
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth Stang wrote:
It's an interesting businesss model fender have. Sell a jagstang in 1997. Then stop. Sell a jag stang in 2003 then stop. Close down Japan and lay off all the workers then make a lower cost jagstand in Mexico. For a market of maybe 100 people.


From one angle, You can say that again, they were pushing Japanese "collector series" "meedly meedly meee" shredder guitars still in 1995 when the Jag-Stang came out, IIRC it shares a page in Fender Frontline along side the Ritchie Sambora Floyd Rose Stratocaster or that Scalloped Fretboard-ed thing Yngwie Malmsteen goes 10,000 mph on. Those guys were totally being outsold by retro-60's kitsch at that time. If I were in charge of Fender in 1991 and started getting reports of vintage Jaguars and Mustangs being hot shit all of a sudden because this Guitar Anti-hero from Seattle is playing them, I'd be gearing up to make inexpensive Squier Pro Tone guitars to the likes of the VM series back then!. Shoot, the guitar that introduced me to EMG's was a Fender Prodigy (basically a offset Heartfield super strat with a Kahler Floyd Rose Clone) - and that was made one year before my Jag-Stang was, showing how misguided Fender seems to have been at that time.

Time for my old man screaming at clouds bit.......

From another angle, I started playing in 1995, the same year the Jag-Stang came out, and things were waaaay different back then. Guitars were more expensive (even those $99 Harmony things - in today's money those guitars would cost around $199 for 2 unswitchable single coils on a boat paddle, a Squier Affinity with consideration for Inflation can be had cheaper now, and those are REAL Teles and Strats), the scene was even more conservative - which explains why 99.9% of the Fender lineup was blues and hair metal based even when "grunge" was the hottest thing. I remember going to guitar stores and hearing the clerks talking shit about Nirvana breaking their guitars and how disgraceful and terrible it was, I even got to hear about the Trees show as one of the guys who owned a shop knew someone working that show. Traditionalists were the loudest, and we were just dumb kids to them playing "that god damn Smells Like Teen Spirit crap" all day long in their stores badly. Also, being kids, we had not any money to spend on guitars, and were at mercy of our parents, and the old stigmas of shortscales and offsets at the time were still held hardcore - I remember going to shops asking about Jaguars at the time and getting "those are too delicate for you - here's a Jackson" all the time, or hearing the same crap over and over about how Mustangs don't stay in tune, need Tune-O-Matics to be real guitars, and have weak pickups, that Cobain kid slapped a humbucker in his and it sounds "okay". Now that we - those kids - hit our mid twenties already, and now had money to burn on guitars, NOW they decide they are going to put more than just a Japanese "Christmas Guitar" in production for parents to buy as a bribe for Johnny boy to get good grades and still believe in Santa Claus (rolls eyes).


Quote:
It's I truiging all the Low cost crap fender has been churning out, pawn series blacktops classic vibe etc. It's almost like they are making it just for folks to take photos off. Then on the other spectrum you have 12,000 dollar custom shop George teles


This is something I've wanted to write a blog post on for years - how 2005-present is what I call the "Consumer Guitar Years" that talks about this very phenomenon with product lines, especially the low end. Guitars have turned from being a tool with which to create music or something more sacred to some people - now to being kind of a status symbol mixed with a disposable appliance in the eyes of the mainstream like a toaster. That's one motivation for the high end models that cost as much as a Toyota Corolla and the low end models that cost less than that Harmony Boat Paddle H804 guitar from the Sears Catalog in 1990 yet are rather accurate reproductions of super-high end models from the 50's and 60's. I have very mixed feelings on that whole thing - it's benefited us as guitarists in so many ways, but also has kind of ruined all the fun but whimsy from it at the same time.
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Fran
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Joined: 20 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mad-Mike wrote:
Darth Stang wrote:
It's an interesting businesss model fender have. Sell a jagstang in 1997. Then stop. Sell a jag stang in 2003 then stop. Close down Japan and lay off all the workers then make a lower cost jagstand in Mexico. For a market of maybe 100 people.


From one angle, You can say that again, they were pushing Japanese "collector series" "meedly meedly meee" shredder guitars still in 1995 when the Jag-Stang came out, IIRC it shares a page in Fender Frontline along side the Ritchie Sambora Floyd Rose Stratocaster or that Scalloped Fretboard-ed thing Yngwie Malmsteen goes 10,000 mph on. Those guys were totally being outsold by retro-60's kitsch at that time. If I were in charge of Fender in 1991 and started getting reports of vintage Jaguars and Mustangs being hot shit all of a sudden because this Guitar Anti-hero from Seattle is playing them, I'd be gearing up to make inexpensive Squier Pro Tone guitars to the likes of the VM series back then!. Shoot, the guitar that introduced me to EMG's was a Fender Prodigy (basically a offset Heartfield super strat with a Kahler Floyd Rose Clone) - and that was made one year before my Jag-Stang was, showing how misguided Fender seems to have been at that time.

Time for my old man screaming at clouds bit.......

From another angle, I started playing in 1995, the same year the Jag-Stang came out, and things were waaaay different back then. Guitars were more expensive (even those $99 Harmony things - in today's money those guitars would cost around $199 for 2 unswitchable single coils on a boat paddle, a Squier Affinity with consideration for Inflation can be had cheaper now, and those are REAL Teles and Strats), the scene was even more conservative - which explains why 99.9% of the Fender lineup was blues and hair metal based even when "grunge" was the hottest thing. I remember going to guitar stores and hearing the clerks talking shit about Nirvana breaking their guitars and how disgraceful and terrible it was, I even got to hear about the Trees show as one of the guys who owned a shop knew someone working that show. Traditionalists were the loudest, and we were just dumb kids to them playing "that god damn Smells Like Teen Spirit crap" all day long in their stores badly. Also, being kids, we had not any money to spend on guitars, and were at mercy of our parents, and the old stigmas of shortscales and offsets at the time were still held hardcore - I remember going to shops asking about Jaguars at the time and getting "those are too delicate for you - here's a Jackson" all the time, or hearing the same crap over and over about how Mustangs don't stay in tune, need Tune-O-Matics to be real guitars, and have weak pickups, that Cobain kid slapped a humbucker in his and it sounds "okay". Now that we - those kids - hit our mid twenties already, and now had money to burn on guitars, NOW they decide they are going to put more than just a Japanese "Christmas Guitar" in production for parents to buy as a bribe for Johnny boy to get good grades and still believe in Santa Claus (rolls eyes).


Quote:
It's I truiging all the Low cost crap fender has been churning out, pawn series blacktops classic vibe etc. It's almost like they are making it just for folks to take photos off. Then on the other spectrum you have 12,000 dollar custom shop George teles


This is something I've wanted to write a blog post on for years - how 2005-present is what I call the "Consumer Guitar Years" that talks about this very phenomenon with product lines, especially the low end. Guitars have turned from being a tool with which to create music or something more sacred to some people - now to being kind of a status symbol mixed with a disposable appliance in the eyes of the mainstream like a toaster. That's one motivation for the high end models that cost as much as a Toyota Corolla and the low end models that cost less than that Harmony Boat Paddle H804 guitar from the Sears Catalog in 1990 yet are rather accurate reproductions of super-high end models from the 50's and 60's. I have very mixed feelings on that whole thing - it's benefited us as guitarists in so many ways, but also has kind of ruined all the fun but whimsy from it at the same time.


Very good post Mike.

To be honest I am at a point were I have lost interest but when I reflect, the mods and builds that WE were doing years ago, was innovative.
Fender have made and released designs and ideas that this community (and others) has already seen.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, maybe we had vision and the ideas were used, I don't know.
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dezb1 wrote:
Stop fucking about and get an SD-1

robroe wrote:
I got a stomach ache. Anyone got any heroin? Or like a gun or something?

brandonwinmill wrote:
Maybe i'll sell my internet. It's lost its fun since i already beat it twice.
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BobArsecake
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to me as though they've just done a massive spunk off and saturated the market to the point of being completely boring. 10 or so years ago a '69 Mustang or '62 Jag reissue was like rocking horse shit in guitar shops (in the uk at least) now it seems to have gone full cycle but only because they're all modded to fuck by Fender themselves. I think Fran has nailed it, for me at least, because we've been dreaming of and actually doing all sorts of mods etc to short scales, when Fender decided to do them all too, they're either uninspiring, the fun is taken from us, or they're not exactly how we imagined. This is a niche site so would have been hard to please.

For me, the reissuing of shortscales peaked at the '65 Mustang and '66(?) Jaguar. They are beautiful.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's true, the phasing in of the "alternative guitars" did require some time for those of us coming of age to grow up and have the disposable income to afford them. it's probably not as easy for a guitar manufacturer to re-tool their factories for pushing out whatever rich parents may buy for their kid one christmas and then switch to whatever is hot the next. unlike the [INSERT XMAS HAF TOY NAME], guitars require all kinds of sourcing, training, etc to mass produce properly.

so it does seem that a re-reissue of the jag-stang would be well-timed if it is indeed on the horizon with this being the 25th anniversary of nevermind's release. or maybe they're gearing up for the 20th anniversary of the guitar itself? i think it's a grand idea as the jag-stang represented fender doing something they hadn't in a long time: make something new. even if it is an amalgam designed by sponsored artist, so what? there's a cult following for them at least as passionate as mustang or bronco fans would have been in the late 80's and early 90's.

so i really do hope they start making them again, warts and all. i think most of us modded our jag-stangs back in the day, just like teh kurdtz modded his guitars... hardly seems like that's a negative at all, tbh.

and idgaf where it's made.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's the thing.


I HAVE SEEN NONE OF THIS SHIT IN REAL LIFE

A.) GUITAR CENTER MOVED INTO TOWN
B.) ALL THE FENDER MOM & POPS GOT PUT OUT OF BUSINESS
C.) ALL GUITAR CENTER FUCKING CARRIES IS BLACK, RED, WHITE, AND SUNBURST STRATS. LIKE 600 OF THEM. FOR EVERY 500 RED STRATS THEY HAVE ONE SQUIER JAGUAR.

D.) SO FENDER CAN MAKE FUCKING 100 DIFFERENT MUSTANGS AND IM NOT GOING TO ORDER A SINGLE FUCKING ONE. NOT WHEN I ALREADY GOT 4 OF THEM ALREADY....WELL 2 NOW.....ANYWAYS FUCK YOU.


COOL COLORS. BUTTFUCK THAT BRIDGE. FENDER LISTEN TO YOUR FUCKING COMMUNITY, EVERY LOVES THE FUCKING MEXICAN TORONADO HARD TAIL. PUT IT ON YOUR FUCKING GUITARS YOU ASSHOLES. THEY LOOK GOOD ON THESE KINDS OF GUITARS BECAUSE THEY ARE ROUNDY. FUCK ALL THESE BRIDGES THAT ARE FUCKING RECTANGLES. MUTANGS, BRONCOS, JAG'S ALL HAD ROUNDY BRIDGES. YOU FUCKS.


SUCK MY DICK OFF.
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OMG FRAN YOU FUCKEN N00B U COULDA JUST BOUGHT A KIDS BIKE AND STOOD CLOSER TO IT
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THEY MADE THAT COOL FUCKING SQUIER PURPLE GUITAR AND I CANT EVEN GET IT BECAUSE I GOTTA HAVE SOME DUDE ON SHORTSCALE FUCKIN BUY IT FOR ME OVER IN GERMANY OR SOME SHIT AND HAVE HIM SHIP IT HERE. FUCK THAT.


I JUST WANNA LOOK AT THE GOD DAMN THING
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OMG FRAN YOU FUCKEN N00B U COULDA JUST BOUGHT A KIDS BIKE AND STOOD CLOSER TO IT
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Mad-Mike
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fran wrote:
Mad-Mike wrote:
Darth Stang wrote:
It's an interesting businesss model fender have. Sell a jagstang in 1997. Then stop. Sell a jag stang in 2003 then stop. Close down Japan and lay off all the workers then make a lower cost jagstand in Mexico. For a market of maybe 100 people.


From one angle, You can say that again, they were pushing Japanese "collector series" "meedly meedly meee" shredder guitars still in 1995 when the Jag-Stang came out, IIRC it shares a page in Fender Frontline along side the Ritchie Sambora Floyd Rose Stratocaster or that Scalloped Fretboard-ed thing Yngwie Malmsteen goes 10,000 mph on. Those guys were totally being outsold by retro-60's kitsch at that time. If I were in charge of Fender in 1991 and started getting reports of vintage Jaguars and Mustangs being hot shit all of a sudden because this Guitar Anti-hero from Seattle is playing them, I'd be gearing up to make inexpensive Squier Pro Tone guitars to the likes of the VM series back then!. Shoot, the guitar that introduced me to EMG's was a Fender Prodigy (basically a offset Heartfield super strat with a Kahler Floyd Rose Clone) - and that was made one year before my Jag-Stang was, showing how misguided Fender seems to have been at that time.

Time for my old man screaming at clouds bit.......

From another angle, I started playing in 1995, the same year the Jag-Stang came out, and things were waaaay different back then. Guitars were more expensive (even those $99 Harmony things - in today's money those guitars would cost around $199 for 2 unswitchable single coils on a boat paddle, a Squier Affinity with consideration for Inflation can be had cheaper now, and those are REAL Teles and Strats), the scene was even more conservative - which explains why 99.9% of the Fender lineup was blues and hair metal based even when "grunge" was the hottest thing. I remember going to guitar stores and hearing the clerks talking shit about Nirvana breaking their guitars and how disgraceful and terrible it was, I even got to hear about the Trees show as one of the guys who owned a shop knew someone working that show. Traditionalists were the loudest, and we were just dumb kids to them playing "that god damn Smells Like Teen Spirit crap" all day long in their stores badly. Also, being kids, we had not any money to spend on guitars, and were at mercy of our parents, and the old stigmas of shortscales and offsets at the time were still held hardcore - I remember going to shops asking about Jaguars at the time and getting "those are too delicate for you - here's a Jackson" all the time, or hearing the same crap over and over about how Mustangs don't stay in tune, need Tune-O-Matics to be real guitars, and have weak pickups, that Cobain kid slapped a humbucker in his and it sounds "okay". Now that we - those kids - hit our mid twenties already, and now had money to burn on guitars, NOW they decide they are going to put more than just a Japanese "Christmas Guitar" in production for parents to buy as a bribe for Johnny boy to get good grades and still believe in Santa Claus (rolls eyes).


Quote:
It's I truiging all the Low cost crap fender has been churning out, pawn series blacktops classic vibe etc. It's almost like they are making it just for folks to take photos off. Then on the other spectrum you have 12,000 dollar custom shop George teles


This is something I've wanted to write a blog post on for years - how 2005-present is what I call the "Consumer Guitar Years" that talks about this very phenomenon with product lines, especially the low end. Guitars have turned from being a tool with which to create music or something more sacred to some people - now to being kind of a status symbol mixed with a disposable appliance in the eyes of the mainstream like a toaster. That's one motivation for the high end models that cost as much as a Toyota Corolla and the low end models that cost less than that Harmony Boat Paddle H804 guitar from the Sears Catalog in 1990 yet are rather accurate reproductions of super-high end models from the 50's and 60's. I have very mixed feelings on that whole thing - it's benefited us as guitarists in so many ways, but also has kind of ruined all the fun but whimsy from it at the same time.


Very good post Mike.

To be honest I am at a point were I have lost interest but when I reflect, the mods and builds that WE were doing years ago, was innovative.
Fender have made and released designs and ideas that this community (and others) has already seen.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, maybe we had vision and the ideas were used, I don't know.


Thank You.

My only interest in the reproduction of the Jag-Stang is hopefully that it comes out at a lower cost so I can build a backup or two to my main for over 15 years for live use mostly for backup and alternate tunings. My others are easily replaced (strats/Teles), already have a decent off-the-rack doppleganger sound and playability wise (VM Series Jaguar, Jazzmaster, and Bass VI), or are so irreplaceable I'll have to make my own from scratch (Hondo Paul Dean II). I'm already looking at purging my collection slowly over the next 10-20 years as I already have my bucketlist + some sentimental guitars that I play most of the time anyway. A lot of this though depends on weather I get in a band again or not - I may just decide to reserve myself to recording on soundcloud and posting stuff to youtube once in awhile because I still enjoy making music.

BobArsecake wrote:
It seems to me as though they've just done a massive spunk off and saturated the market to the point of being completely boring.


I kind of feel that way as well, I think the hot times for them peaked at the Squier VM series myself - it's nice now I can go into a guitar store and plug in a Squier VM Jaguar or Jazzmaster and know what piece of equipment I'm replacing/upgrading will sound like with my own guitars without actually dragging one of my own instruments to the store myself. It is boring though, honestly I don't even go to guitar shops for fun very much anymore to see what new offerings there are, most of the time it's either to upgrade an amp modeler, replace a pedal, or to sell off something I don't use anymore. Maybe sometimes I kick up something cool like that Airline I found in Portland at TradeUp (but did not buy, replaced my long purged PolyChorus with a Small Clone instead) or the Guild S2000 that was next to it, but most of the time I'm like "ehhh, whatever, this is just like my CIJ Jag with the cool rails....might make a nice backup when I want/need one but otherwise meh".
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth Stang wrote:
It's an interesting businesss model fender have. Sell a jagstang in 1997. Then stop. Sell a jag stang in 2003 then stop. Close down Japan and lay off all the workers then make a lower cost jagstand in Mexico. For a market of maybe 100 people.

It's I truiging all the Low cost crap fender has been churning out, pawn series blacktops classic vibe etc. It's almost like they are making it just for folks to take photos off. Then on the other spectrum you have 12,000 dollar custom shop George teles

It would have been an interesting spreadsheet that they had back in the 90s when they were justifying building the Mexico factory instead of rolling with Japan.


There's one inaccuracy here, I believe. Fender Japan wasn't part of FMIC. It was an independent entity that licensed Fender's designs. Their primary marketplace was Japan. The plant in Mexico, on the other hand, was making guitars for FMIC to be sold primarily in the US. That's why MIM and MIJ models coexisted for so long: they were built by two different companies.

FMIC didn't shut down their own production of guitars in Japan. Rather, they shut down Fender Japan so they could take control of the Japanese market. In fact, I believe FMIC will still continue to produce Japanese-made Mustangs for the Japanese market (although it may be in a different factory).
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there must have been all sorts of negotiations. Fender Japan was setup to legitamize MIJ fender like guitars. But they could have been exported world wide at that time (mid to late 80's). FMIC didn't want to do world wide shipping of MIJ to protect the US made instruments. So it is odd that they would spin up Fender Mexico in the late 90's to offer that price point to the market.

In terms of MIJ Mustangs, I reckon at some point all mustang production will shift to mexico (the new olive drab mustang is MIM)

Something funny must of happened in Japan around 2012 at the time of the Kurt Mustangs. The JD serial number builds are definitely different to Mustangs that were R & S serial numbers. Although Jason Norvell is on youtube somewhere indicating that Kurts 1993 Mustang was made at the same factory as the 2012 mustangs. It would be interesting to get hands on with a real 1987 or 1992 MIJ mustang to see what they were like.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth Stang wrote:
Yes there must have been all sorts of negotiations. Fender Japan was setup to legitamize MIJ fender like guitars. But they could have been exported world wide at that time (mid to late 80's). FMIC didn't want to do world wide shipping of MIJ to protect the US made instruments. So it is odd that they would spin up Fender Mexico in the late 90's to offer that price point to the market.

In terms of MIJ Mustangs, I reckon at some point all mustang production will shift to mexico (the new olive drab mustang is MIM)

Something funny must of happened in Japan around 2012 at the time of the Kurt Mustangs. The JD serial number builds are definitely different to Mustangs that were R & S serial numbers. Although Jason Norvell is on youtube somewhere indicating that Kurts 1993 Mustang was made at the same factory as the 2012 mustangs. It would be interesting to get hands on with a real 1987 or 1992 MIJ mustang to see what they were like.


IIRC the Mustang was reissued by Japan in 1990 - the Jaguar and Jazzmaster in 1985. Those were all made at Fujigen Gakki till 1997-1998 when they moved to Dyna Gakki and changed serial tags to say Crafted in Japan.

I dunno about post 2008 - I know 2008 is when the changeover back to MIJ happened though - I had a 2008 CIJ Fender Jaguar HH Special, and a 2008 Fender Mustang Bass MIJ. I don't know if they changed back to FujiGen or not, but I think FujiGen continued to make guitars in offset/shortscale style under other brands, including a Jag-Stang with a Strat vibrato unit.

I also just remembered - OSG had a thread awhile back on copy Jag-Stangs, got me wondering if the remaining stock at Fujigen or Dyna was cleared out making copies for other markets under the names RoxStar and Barclay - http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83312
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth Stang wrote:
Yes there must have been all sorts of negotiations. Fender Japan was setup to legitamize MIJ fender like guitars. But they could have been exported world wide at that time (mid to late 80's). FMIC didn't want to do world wide shipping of MIJ to protect the US made instruments. So it is odd that they would spin up Fender Mexico in the late 90's to offer that price point to the market.

In terms of MIJ Mustangs, I reckon at some point all mustang production will shift to mexico (the new olive drab mustang is MIM)

Something funny must of happened in Japan around 2012 at the time of the Kurt Mustangs. The JD serial number builds are definitely different to Mustangs that were R & S serial numbers. Although Jason Norvell is on youtube somewhere indicating that Kurts 1993 Mustang was made at the same factory as the 2012 mustangs. It would be interesting to get hands on with a real 1987 or 1992 MIJ mustang to see what they were like.


IIRC the Mustang was reissued by Japan in 1990 - the Jaguar and Jazzmaster in 1985. Those were all made at Fujigen Gakki till 1997-1998 when they moved to Dyna Gakki and changed serial tags to say Crafted in Japan.

I dunno about post 2008 - I know 2008 is when the changeover back to MIJ happened though - I had a 2008 CIJ Fender Jaguar HH Special, and a 2008 Fender Mustang Bass MIJ. I don't know if they changed back to FujiGen or not, but I think FujiGen continued to make guitars in offset/shortscale style under other brands, including a Jag-Stang with a Strat vibrato unit.

I also just remembered - OSG had a thread awhile back on copy Jag-Stangs, got me wondering if the remaining stock at Fujigen or Dyna was cleared out making copies for other markets under the names RoxStar and Barclay - http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=83312
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New Photos on jag-stang.com
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That cherry burst compstang body and that 70s looking jazzy are more interesting IMO. Dunno if I'd buy a new Jag-Stang. Never hated them, but even in my biggest Nirvana phase I never loved them, either. I'll bet it's Chinese---it looks nothing like the new MIM Duos / Mustangs. That, or it's American and is going to be more expensive than previous runs.

Some great reads on this page, tho. I'm at a point in life where I'm not sure any new guitar can really wow me, aside from like $2500 Kauer guitars, which I could build myself for 1/5 the price. The PRS Mira, Starla, and Vela are more interesting to me than 98% of what Fender and Gibson have put out in a decade. And that's saying a lot, because everyone loves to hate PRS. And guess what? They're American made and don't cost more than Fender. I mean if Fender were to come out with something new, something brand new, perhaps I'd be interested again. Do want the Vela on the right in short scale format.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mad-Mike wrote:
Fran wrote:
Mad-Mike wrote:
Darth Stang wrote:
It's an interesting businesss model fender have. Sell a jagstang in 1997. Then stop. Sell a jag stang in 2003 then stop. Close down Japan and lay off all the workers then make a lower cost jagstand in Mexico. For a market of maybe 100 people.


From one angle, You can say that again, they were pushing Japanese "collector series" "meedly meedly meee" shredder guitars still in 1995 when the Jag-Stang came out, IIRC it shares a page in Fender Frontline along side the Ritchie Sambora Floyd Rose Stratocaster or that Scalloped Fretboard-ed thing Yngwie Malmsteen goes 10,000 mph on. Those guys were totally being outsold by retro-60's kitsch at that time. If I were in charge of Fender in 1991 and started getting reports of vintage Jaguars and Mustangs being hot shit all of a sudden because this Guitar Anti-hero from Seattle is playing them, I'd be gearing up to make inexpensive Squier Pro Tone guitars to the likes of the VM series back then!. Shoot, the guitar that introduced me to EMG's was a Fender Prodigy (basically a offset Heartfield super strat with a Kahler Floyd Rose Clone) - and that was made one year before my Jag-Stang was, showing how misguided Fender seems to have been at that time.

Time for my old man screaming at clouds bit.......

From another angle, I started playing in 1995, the same year the Jag-Stang came out, and things were waaaay different back then. Guitars were more expensive (even those $99 Harmony things - in today's money those guitars would cost around $199 for 2 unswitchable single coils on a boat paddle, a Squier Affinity with consideration for Inflation can be had cheaper now, and those are REAL Teles and Strats), the scene was even more conservative - which explains why 99.9% of the Fender lineup was blues and hair metal based even when "grunge" was the hottest thing. I remember going to guitar stores and hearing the clerks talking shit about Nirvana breaking their guitars and how disgraceful and terrible it was, I even got to hear about the Trees show as one of the guys who owned a shop knew someone working that show. Traditionalists were the loudest, and we were just dumb kids to them playing "that god damn Smells Like Teen Spirit crap" all day long in their stores badly. Also, being kids, we had not any money to spend on guitars, and were at mercy of our parents, and the old stigmas of shortscales and offsets at the time were still held hardcore - I remember going to shops asking about Jaguars at the time and getting "those are too delicate for you - here's a Jackson" all the time, or hearing the same crap over and over about how Mustangs don't stay in tune, need Tune-O-Matics to be real guitars, and have weak pickups, that Cobain kid slapped a humbucker in his and it sounds "okay". Now that we - those kids - hit our mid twenties already, and now had money to burn on guitars, NOW they decide they are going to put more than just a Japanese "Christmas Guitar" in production for parents to buy as a bribe for Johnny boy to get good grades and still believe in Santa Claus (rolls eyes).


Quote:
It's I truiging all the Low cost crap fender has been churning out, pawn series blacktops classic vibe etc. It's almost like they are making it just for folks to take photos off. Then on the other spectrum you have 12,000 dollar custom shop George teles


This is something I've wanted to write a blog post on for years - how 2005-present is what I call the "Consumer Guitar Years" that talks about this very phenomenon with product lines, especially the low end. Guitars have turned from being a tool with which to create music or something more sacred to some people - now to being kind of a status symbol mixed with a disposable appliance in the eyes of the mainstream like a toaster. That's one motivation for the high end models that cost as much as a Toyota Corolla and the low end models that cost less than that Harmony Boat Paddle H804 guitar from the Sears Catalog in 1990 yet are rather accurate reproductions of super-high end models from the 50's and 60's. I have very mixed feelings on that whole thing - it's benefited us as guitarists in so many ways, but also has kind of ruined all the fun but whimsy from it at the same time.


Very good post Mike.

To be honest I am at a point were I have lost interest but when I reflect, the mods and builds that WE were doing years ago, was innovative.
Fender have made and released designs and ideas that this community (and others) has already seen.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, maybe we had vision and the ideas were used, I don't know.


Thank You.

My only interest in the reproduction of the Jag-Stang is hopefully that it comes out at a lower cost so I can build a backup or two to my main for over 15 years for live use mostly for backup and alternate tunings. My others are easily replaced (strats/Teles), already have a decent off-the-rack doppleganger sound and playability wise (VM Series Jaguar, Jazzmaster, and Bass VI), or are so irreplaceable I'll have to make my own from scratch (Hondo Paul Dean II). I'm already looking at purging my collection slowly over the next 10-20 years as I already have my bucketlist + some sentimental guitars that I play most of the time anyway. A lot of this though depends on weather I get in a band again or not - I may just decide to reserve myself to recording on soundcloud and posting stuff to youtube once in awhile because I still enjoy making music.

BobArsecake wrote:
It seems to me as though they've just done a massive spunk off and saturated the market to the point of being completely boring.


I kind of feel that way as well, I think the hot times for them peaked at the Squier VM series myself - it's nice now I can go into a guitar store and plug in a Squier VM Jaguar or Jazzmaster and know what piece of equipment I'm replacing/upgrading will sound like with my own guitars without actually dragging one of my own instruments to the store myself. It is boring though, honestly I don't even go to guitar shops for fun very much anymore to see what new offerings there are, most of the time it's either to upgrade an amp modeler, replace a pedal, or to sell off something I don't use anymore. Maybe sometimes I kick up something cool like that Airline I found in Portland at TradeUp (but did not buy, replaced my long purged PolyChorus with a Small Clone instead) or the Guild S2000 that was next to it, but most of the time I'm like "ehhh, whatever, this is just like my CIJ Jag with the cool rails....might make a nice backup when I want/need one but otherwise meh".

I'm just having some time out Mike, 25 years of bands has wore a bit thin.
I'll be back one day soon and I didn't mean my post to sound as negative as it did.

You are a good player, I remember your videos very well and what you got out of a Jag-Stang is admirable. Some folk can't even keep one in tune.

But yeah, if this model is affordable in will buy one.
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