ShortScale Forum Index www.shortscale.org
Head 'n Neck Above
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
UploaderUploader   ShortScale WikiWiki   ShortScale RadioRadio  ShortScale WikiBuilder

Let's talk about baritones

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ShortScale Forum Index -> All Other Guitars
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Concretebadger
.
.


Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 1780
Location: Leeds Leeds LEEDS

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject: Let's talk about baritones Reply with quote

It's a slow day in the office and I've been thinking about my Epi Sheraton that's tuned down to C with some bridge cable 13s that are overdue for replacement.

How many folks on here like to longscale? There've been a few threads about bass VIs (which I've always thought of as being their own thing, rather than a baritone per se) and I recall someone picking up a Squier baritone JM, which I find appealing because the JM sound and feel would be nice and familiar.

Interestingly, Hagstrom do a baritone version of their Viking, which really got my interest because it scratches that semi-hollow itch that I've had since forever, and quite frankly it looks really damn nice ("cosmic black burst"...yum). I'm shooting for a guitar/cello sound rather than a chugging NU METAL TOANZ sound anyway, so it looks like a good fit.

What's everyone else's experience of longer scale guitars? Why do you longscale? What's fun about them? Any unique quirks or problems (live or in the studio)? Like I said, I'm just looking for a slightly different sound that's more deep and cello-like, rather than standard detuned stuff. Standard scale with thicker gauge strings is one way to get there, but I'm curious about experimenting with something that most other people aren't doing.
_________________
"I bet you like your Big Muffs like your vodka, Russian and made of military surplus."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
speedfish
.
.


Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 1033

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking forward to everyone's replies. The baritone is one guitar that has intrigued me and is missing from my arsenal. I have a Bass VI, but that's not the same thing. I've been thinking about a Squier Baritone, but I'm not a fan of the Antigua finish and I'm in no hurry to start another refinish project either. Had been thinking about the Gibson SG baritone.


Link


27" scale tuned B-B

The PRS looks pretty cool and is priced lower than the Gibson.


Link


27.7" scale tuned B-B



Link


27.7" scale tunbed B-B

Here's the Squier. Longer scale than the PRS. Maybe I could dig some Antigua? I do love big fat blocks!


Link


30" scale tuned A-A
_________________
Disciple of Pain

"I'm like the monkey screwing the skunk. I haven't had enough, but I've about had all that I can stand!"


Last edited by speedfish on Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:10 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NickS
.
.


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 8034
Location: Duncaring, UK

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would look so much better IMO if the pickguard wasn't Antigua'd too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
benecol
Best Poster 2010


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 6419
Location: Westcountry

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had four baritones (two pre-hate Dano's, a tele bitsa and a Bass VI strung as a bari) and I've loved them all; wish I still had one. The extra string length just means they resnoate so nicely and so long - while the range is near that of a cello, I always think there's a piano-like nature to the feel and sound too. I've eyed those Hagstroms as well, but for me they seem: a) pricey, b) not much longer a scale length than a regular guitar. 30" is where it's at, baby. I think the most cost-effective route into baritone ownership now (and I'm studiously ignoring Danelectros because while I LOVE them, the haet has killed them for me) is a Squier - some variation of the VI.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nick
Y'SEE!?


Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 7001
Location: Albany, NY

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

benecol wrote:
(and I'm studiously ignoring Danelectros because while I LOVE them, the haet has killed them for me)
I broke the rule and bought a Dano XII recently, have seriously considered donating to an LGBT charity in Stephen Ridinger's name to compensate morally.
_________________
http://reverbnation.com/realbluesky
http://dearestvendetta.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aen
Turdscreamer


Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 7342
Location: ELECTRIC WARRIOR

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Let's talk about baritones Reply with quote

Concretebadger wrote:

What's everyone else's experience of longer scale guitars? Why do you longscale? What's fun about them?


Hell yeah I'm into baritones!

I've got two proper long scales right now, but I've also done plenty of low tuning standard scale instruments.
My main attraction is that low end power, but they still have the capability of going high on those skinny strings. I also cover the low end in my band with a bari from time to time.
We did a song where I covered a lot of tones with baritones -

https://theronaldraygun.bandcamp.com/track/thunderland

The pads in the beginning are all baritone into the Superego, with a delay on it, of course. When we do it live, theres only one superego track, but I sort of switch back and forth between the delay and superego as the verses dictate.
When it gets loud you can really hear the roar of the baritone, but I recorded that pretty "toppy" and added a synth sub-bass. Live there's no need, as I play through a big bass rig.

I've had a couple Vi style instruments, which are really their own thing. I don't really see much crossover in my work, but a VI is a hell of a thing. If you've got some time this is how I used to use mine.


Link


These days I've ended up writing some parts for it with The Raygun, more of a bass guitar style, with some occasional high string stuff where I back it up with synth bass.
_________________
High quality, low popularity Ecstatic Fury
https://theronaldraygun.bandcamp.com/album/surrender-dorothy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ankhanu
.
.


Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 2772
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play Bass VI (Schecter Hellcat VI) as my primary bass; yeah it's a different creature than a baritone - it's a bass.

I have strung my Schecter Ultra VI with light baritone strings and tune it up to B for more proper baritone sounds, but at a longer scale lenght - akin to the Antigua Squire bari JM. It works pretty well, though some of the chord shapes are a bit wide. I'd like a more standard scale bari, but that costs more money than a pack of strings Wink

It's all about timbre and range with the baritone. It sits in a really nice groove between our standard ranges, with a tight depth that goes missing with floppy guitar strings, or heavy bass strings; it's an interesting, "natural" sort of range for the ear, I think. They resonate beautifully, with very full, lush chord sounds. Even playing the same songs you'd play on standard guitar, the voicings of the chords for baritone just have a different character; sits differently in the mix.

I suppose the quirk with them when recording is making them really stand out so you can actually hear their special qualities in the mix. Because they are sitting in that in-between, they can kind of disappear, lose presence. However, if they're THE guitar in a recording, with bass, drums, etc. it can work really well.
You've gotta watch out for some muddiness with the lowest chords too - sometimes a different chord voicing will give better results.
_________________
ekwatts wrote:
That's American cinema, that is. Fucking sparkles.


Donate to Ankhanu Press
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
ekwatts
A series of tubes


Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 20394
Location: Bongchester

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Gretsch baritone strung as a six string bass. I never really saw the point of it when it was in A or B as I already had a guitar tuned as low as that anyway. Yeah, not really the same sort of playing experience, but I also fancied having a bass/guitar hybrid with a tremolo.

Joy Division and New Order stuff is easy enough. And for regular bass duties it's passable. I just love playing it, really. It's a huge amount of fun.
_________________


Brandon W wrote:
you elites.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dillon
.
.


Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 1060
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like a baritone, but haven't been able to justify the cost for as much as I'd use one. Especially when a 25.5" scale guitar can easily handle strings thick enough to drop to B-B tuning. That SG is probably the only baritone I'd want to own and it's $1100. IMO 27-28" scale is proper for a baritone, 30" can conflict with a bass. That rules out pretty much any Fender / Squier, and the PRS neck heels are just bizarre, though I don't imagine playing on the upper frets with a baritone much anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
speedfish
.
.


Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 1033

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epiphone signature Baritone:


Link

_________________
Disciple of Pain

"I'm like the monkey screwing the skunk. I haven't had enough, but I've about had all that I can stand!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PV-1955
.
.


Joined: 11 Feb 2017
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Squier's new finish for the Baritone Jazzmaster has me seriously considering one. I lthink this is a whole lot nicer looking than the Antigua version

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
daftsupernova
.
.


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 2039
Location: bottom of in a hell

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedfish wrote:
Epiphone signature Baritone:


Link


holy shit that thing is uglier than the Antigua baritone
_________________
sunshiner wrote:
you can allow yourself to appear on the central tv channels wearing coat indoors and saying "fuck" every ten seconds

robroe wrote:
christ I remember fucking around with these kids giving them the cheese touch in the back of the van
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Concretebadger
.
.


Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 1780
Location: Leeds Leeds LEEDS

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies guys.

Yeah, the new black-on-black/matching headstock finish on the Squier is great - a real improvment on the Antigua, and actually helps me forget about the Strat jack plate. Laughing In fact, I'd probably whip the credit card out for it right now if I hadn't just LOST MY EFFING JOB AGAIN.

@Aen: awesome vid. I've got a real soft spot for the noise/drone improv stuff. Will check out your Ronald Raygun stuff.

I still like the look of the Hagstroms, but the Squiers have some real charm of their own. That flying V, or any flying V really, isn't my thing though. I guess it works if it fits the image you're going for, but they just look too HEAVY METALZ and uncomfortable for seated playing. The "piano-like" timbre of a baritone intrigues me - there's an element of that in the JM sound already, but the hardtail and longer scale could give a same-but-different sound that could work well for me.

Heh. I'll get back to the application forms, and think about the VM Squier as a congrats-to-myself present when I finally land something.
_________________
"I bet you like your Big Muffs like your vodka, Russian and made of military surplus."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ankhanu
.
.


Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 2772
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dillon wrote:
I'd like a baritone, but haven't been able to justify the cost for as much as I'd use one. Especially when a 25.5" scale guitar can easily handle strings thick enough to drop to B-B tuning. That SG is probably the only baritone I'd want to own and it's $1100. IMO 27-28" scale is proper for a baritone, 30" can conflict with a bass. That rules out pretty much any Fender / Squier, and the PRS neck heels are just bizarre, though I don't imagine playing on the upper frets with a baritone much anyway.

A 25.5" guitar with heavy strings tuned to baritone tunings is a fairly different playing and sounding creature than an actual baritone. String length and tension make a big difference in the overtone series, and the way the strings feel under your fingers. I mean, it works, but it gives a somewhat flubby, mushy tone... which can be really cool, but is just not the same crisp, clear notes from a properly sized baritone. The strings feel spongy under your fingers too, versus a proper tension on a baritone... a little like playing .008s or something on a standard guitar.

There's no conflict with basses at 30" scale... the tuning is still B or A, whether at 30" or 27-28"... but there are some tonal differences between the scales.

Most Squire and Fender baritones are proper baritone scale length, the only exception I know of is the Squier VM Baritone Jazzmaster, at 30".
_________________
ekwatts wrote:
That's American cinema, that is. Fucking sparkles.


Donate to Ankhanu Press
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
NickS
.
.


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 8034
Location: Duncaring, UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concretebadger wrote:
That flying V, or any flying V really, isn't my thing though. I guess it works if it fits the image you're going for, but they just look too HEAVY METALZ and uncomfortable for seated playing.
The V gets a bad rap. It's probably Andy Powell's influence rather than Michael Schenke's that led me to choose one.
Gibson wrote:
Today’s low-tuned metal guitar bands also owe a little something to King, even if they’ve never heard his music. King answered the question “how low can you go?” by tuning his thickest string down to C and employing open E-minor tuning (C-B-E-G-B-E) or kicking things up to open F (C-F-C-F-A-D). Credit that to his interest in Hawaiian music, which uses a wide variety of open, so-called “slack key” tunings.


Andy Powell's not very metal, nor Hendrix, nor Dave Davies (Kinks)

Seated playing is very easy; stick your right leg in the notch of the V. They did introduce a rubber strip on the lower bout to allow you to rest it on your leg but mine doesn't have that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Concretebadger
.
.


Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 1780
Location: Leeds Leeds LEEDS

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I look at the Squier VM bari, the more I think you could mod its control layout to be closer to that of a standard JM and get rid of that Strat jack plate. The positions of the vol and tone controls are roughly where the tone control and output jack of a regular JM would be. Assuming the body rout is standard (is it larger than a standard JM body, I wonder?), I'm guessing it would be fairly easy to drill a hole in the pickguard near the neck pickup, move the knobs along a bit, put the switch in the hole you just drilled, and fit a jack socket in the hole that was occupied by the tone control.

This would leave that jack plate and its rout to deal with, but I'm guessing you could fill it in and then either refinish the area in question (which would be easier than some, what with it being plain black) or slap a sticker over it.

There is of course an obvious lack of rhythm circuit, but that's a take-it-or-leave-it feature for many players anyway. Given the muddiness of that circuit and the tonal range of a bari, I'm even more sure that this particular model won't miss it.
_________________
"I bet you like your Big Muffs like your vodka, Russian and made of military surplus."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ankhanu
.
.


Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 2772
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick search on Google:

The route isn't the same, but setting up a 3-way toggle on the lower bout horn where it should be wouldn't be a problem. Really, you'd want to cut a new guard in any case, or find a use for the old toggle hole near the knobs... phase switch perhaps??

I'm pretty certain the bodies are just rerouted bodies from the first run of Squier VM Jazzmasters with the same bridge and no rhythm circuit... but the bridge is moved back past the pickguard, and the bridge pickup is where the bridge used to be.
_________________
ekwatts wrote:
That's American cinema, that is. Fucking sparkles.


Donate to Ankhanu Press
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ShortScale Forum Index -> All Other Guitars All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Anti Bot Question MOD - phpBB MOD against Spam Bots
Blocked registrations / posts: 529529 / 0

Guitars at Musician's Friend

Help support this site by clicking the above link!