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Some thoughts on the Boss DS-1
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Mike
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul_ wrote:
My fave Kurt live and studio sounds were his Jag (1meg pots and Super D) going through a DS-2. I always thought his MIJ Stangs and Sansamp on the In Utero tours sounded like flat-ass dogshit by comparison. The In Utero sessions were great too though as they were the dream team through a Twin Reverb (versus his ridiculous live rig).


Link


This is some PHAT TONE
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paul_
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fran wrote:
Mode I or II?

That recording sounds more like mode I to me, which is basically a DS-1 circuit, right?

Mode II sounds more vowel-like, almost like a cocked Wah setting.


Neither mode on a DS-2 sounds or behaves anything a DS-1 to me. I’ve heard a lot of people say it over the years but I’m not convinced they even aimed it that way unless the Japanese DS-1 was actually THAT much different than the current one.
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Fran
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul_ wrote:
Fran wrote:
Mode I or II?

That recording sounds more like mode I to me, which is basically a DS-1 circuit, right?

Mode II sounds more vowel-like, almost like a cocked Wah setting.


Neither mode on a DS-2 sounds or behaves anything a DS-1 to me. I’ve heard a lot of people say it over the years but I’m not convinced they even aimed it that way unless the Japanese DS-1 was actually THAT much different than the current one.


Interesting.
My DS-1 has the Jizzer Mod so can't really compare it to my DS-2.
I seem to remember them being similar but that was a long time ago.

That black label SD-1 sounds different to the current model so who knows...
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Mike
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The circuits are totally different.

DS-1 is an op-amp with buffering and a boost up front



DS-2 is all discrete bipolar transistors and FETs, no op-amps



DS-1 clips to Vref (half supply) and DS-2 clips to ground

Distortion and Tone controls/networks look really different.
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NickS
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
DS-2 is all discrete bipolar transistors and FETs, no op-amps
And apart from the long-tailed pair, all the FETs are used as switches. Three pairs of clipping diodes, and the remote Turbo input. Seems a little over-egged to me, but I've got cloth ears.
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Fran
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike wrote:
The circuits are totally different.

DS-1 is an op-amp with buffering and a boost up front



DS-2 is all discrete bipolar transistors and FETs, no op-amps



DS-1 clips to Vref (half supply) and DS-2 clips to ground

Distortion and Tone controls/networks look really different.


Thanks Mike.

Any idea on the DF-2 circuit, minus the feedback of course. All three sounded similar to me.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickS is more of a circuit guru than me, he saw right through the DS-2 circuit Smile

The DF-2 is a BEAST

https://images.talkbass.com/attachments/boss-df-2-super-feedbacker-distorti-jpg.1396652/

From what I can tell the distortion side looks a bit more DS-1 ish than the DS-2

Input preamp stage into op amp - clipping to ground and then the tone control doesn't really match either the DS-1 or the DS-2...

My guess is they started with the DS-1 basics but then did a whole bunch of tweaking. It's not 100% of either of them

I'm sure Nick can get much more than I could though
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Fran
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good stuff Mike.

About the most informative thread we've had on here in ages.
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NickS
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike's spot on about the distortion path for the DF-2. The "feedbacker" bit is interesting, I'll have to find a YouTube video to hear how it works.
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Fran
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickS wrote:
Mike's spot on about the distortion path for the DF-2. The "feedbacker" bit is interesting, I'll have to find a YouTube video to hear how it works.


It works like the EHX Freeze. A bit like tinnitus in a pedal.

I've only ever seen one two bands exploit that pedal well and that was Swervedriver and the Kitchens of Distinction.


Link



Link

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Concretebadger
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fascinating.

It's interesting to see the DS-2 is discrete components rather than op-amps...I normally expect newer versions of a circuit to go more towards the op-amp route because I assumed it would be cheaper. One of these days I'm going to buy that book that Boss published where they interview the techs/designers...I doubt it has circuit diagrams or schematics and the listing is probably out of date by now, but there's probably some interesting info on the design process for the old classics.

I wonder what the guts of an OS-2 look like - it would be interesting to see how two separate circuits are squeezed onto one board.
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Mike
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=163

The OS-2 is really cool!

the signal is buffered and then split and goes two ways:


1. to an op-amp based Distortion design (hard clipping to ground - sort of like a DS-1 without the input boost)

2. to an op-amp based Overdrive design (assymetrical soft clipping in feedback loop - more like an SD-1)

the clever part is they SHARE a dual gang Drive pot so when you change the gain they both are moved up and down together

Then a COLOR pot effectively mixes the outputs of these two paths together into one, and then feeds the tone control (new, again not DS-1 or DS-2 like) and level control to create the output

So it really is what you would hope it is, two separate circuits you can blend before tone and output level are set.
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Noirie.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys know about the OD-2 and BD-2 circuits? The latter is supposed to be an improved version of the OD2
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sunshiner
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^Mad Professor Sweet Honey is the same circuit as BD-2, costs twice more money. But I'll save your time - Joyo Sweet Baby is a direct copy of Sweet Honey and costs $30
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