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Two Mics, One Kit

 
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ac88
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:37 pm    Post subject: Two Mics, One Kit Reply with quote

Ok, so all the recording equipment I have this summer:

Firebox + GarageBand, AKG Condenser Mic, Shure SM58

We have all our amps and drums in a nice sounding small room, and I was wondering what would be the best position to place the two mics we have? We don't need a real heavy bass or snare sound [i.e. metal], just a natural kit sound. My remedial judgment says to put the condenser mic maybe 2-3 feet in front of the kit and overhead, and the SM58 somewhere over the snare/high hat. Whats the best way to make sure its in phase? Is there a better way to go about this?
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robroe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

something i have always wanted to try is micing the batter side of a bass drum.


question: does your drummah use alot of floor tom?
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Freddy V-C
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did some recording like this today. We got good results with one mic pointing towards the snare, and one actually inside the bass drum.
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laterallateral
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would setup the condenser about two feet off center of the BD, ride side and about 5 feet off the ground and like you said, 2 feet to the front. Any idea what model mic exactly? ...Cause I would have it's orientation depend on the pickup pattern and the size of the room. If you can, I would add a touch of compression and subdue the highs, a little bit

I would have the 58 pointing slightly up at around the same height as the snare rim, angled towards the snare and situated in the gap between the HH and snare.

P.S. I tend to like really boxy sounding drums.
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DanHeron
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I record drums with 2 mics. Its never perfect but i found micing the bass drum is a must everytime. Then use the condenser as an overhead.

With my shitty Behringer C3 condenser I have to take a bit of time finding a good spot. If i angle it slightly towards the hi hat they overpower the snare a lot. I have it over the snare, pointing downwards but slightly away from the hihats. It works pretty well.

With my mates much better condenser we just places it where you see it in this pic and it worked fine:


It can be a hassle but its best to just try out different positions. Also, once its set up in a good spot leave it there! I'm always losing a good drums sound because i take the mics down and use them for other things Sad

Here's some mp3s with my 2 mic drums on:
Twist n Shout instrumental cover
Short unfinished thing...
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greenweenie
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanHeron wrote:
I record drums with 2 mics. Its never perfect but i found micing the bass drum is a must everytime. Then use the condenser as an overhead.

With my shitty Behringer C3 condenser I have to take a bit of time finding a good spot. If i angle it slightly towards the hi hat they overpower the snare a lot. I have it over the snare, pointing downwards but slightly away from the hihats. It works pretty well.

With my mates much better condenser we just places it where you see it in this pic and it worked fine:


It can be a hassle but its best to just try out different positions. Also, once its set up in a good spot leave it there! I'm always losing a good drums sound because i take the mics down and use them for other things Sad

Here's some mp3s with my 2 mic drums on:
Twist n Shout instrumental cover
Short unfinished thing...


Nice kit. What kit is that?
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DanHeron
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Its a late 60's/early 70's Premier Olympic. Got it with the original cymbals for 150 off ebay. Sounds so much better than the beginners kits you get nowadays, looks awesome, and it was cheaper. I'm pretty pleased with it. Also, the guy I bought it off said the floor time is pretty rare - it's 14" rather than the more common 16". Its a cool little kit.


with the original tom mount.
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kim
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when we recorded with only two mics (two dynamic mics though) we hung one from the ceiling, reheasing in a circle and the pic hanging in the centre just above my head but i'm small so i'd say face level.

the other mic we'd put down on the floor and move it around seeing what gave the best sound from basdrum and bass. it's really amateur but you can have some cool results especially for just punk/loud rock that can get away with sounding a bit 'crap' in quality.
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goldengurls
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a mixer into two inputs on a motu board into logic, but i have all 8 mic inputs going on the mixer most of the time for drums, i eq it prior and the pan to the left and the right all the way.
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Gabriel
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a video on youtube about recording drums with 2 mics, it was pretty useful for when my band did a DIY demo. I'll be honest the drums sounded better than the guitar (I didn't think mic placement would have an effect - I was wrong run4cover ).

Basically just point one mic directly over the snare 2 average sized drumsticks away. Then point the other 2 sticks from the center of the snare from the opposite shoulder (in this case right-handed drumer, so mic was over right shoulder). With some trial and error we got a useable drum sound.

Hope that helps

Gabe
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Sloan
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

use one mic way back. it sounds rad.

you can hear this 'technique' in my HIT SONG 'sometime last night' at http://www.sloanstewart.com
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UlricvonCatalyst
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For kit-only recording in a live-sounding room I would point the SM58 on-axis at the centre of the bass drum, about 6"-9" away and have the condenser on 'omni', as high as you can get it above the centre of the kit, with generous amounts of compression on both mics. Should give you a real vintage sound with loads of natural reverb.
Behringer condensers tend to have a bit of a presence peak which you might want to roll off a little (or not) in the final mixdown.
I'd be surprised if you have any phasing issues with this simple set-up.
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toez10
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been doing recordings lately with just two drum mics at home for demos, and have found great results with putting a cardioid condenser about 2 feet away from my bass drum, placed slightly the ride side and pointed at the beater. My other mic, an EV cardinal is positioned about 3 inches above the rim of the snare pointed at the center. With this set up, and a little help from T-Racks, I've been able to get some pretty big sounding drum tracks. You'll need to do some equalization on each mic, and a little reverb never hurts. Compression is a matter of taste, but I get a really solid drum to cymbal ratio with this setup. Without close micing, you might find that overheads, especially placed high overhead might be overpoweringly cymbal heavy.
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Crash
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll just add that Cymbals (except Hihat) project sound above/below, so you can use the mic placement to 'mix' the volume of your cymbals. Above the cymbals gives you a brighter, brass-heavy sound (especially if the dude is smashing away), and in front of the kit gives you more focus on the drums.

I'd always start out experimenting if I wasn't totally sure where to put a mic - it'll take no time at all and you'll get a much better feel for mic placement. Try both above and in front of the kit.

After you've got a sound you like with the one mic, I'd use your 58 to 'fill in' anything that's lacking a bit - most likely the kick drum, especially if the mic ended up above the kit. If you want the kick to sound tight and modern, put it inside the drum (the closer to the beater you go the more 'click' and less 'boom' you get), if you want a bit more oldschool move the mic further back and see what it sounds like. If you put it right on the floor you can take advantage of the Boundry Effect and get a whole lot of extra low-end (just make sure the mic's not slap-band in the middle of the room if you want to do this).

Compression is your friend in this kind of situation.

Lastly, don't be scared of telling the dude to hit a particular drum harder if it's not coming through enough!
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Sloan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

two mics = 'andy johns' setup

search for it, you'll find it
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