ShortScale Forum Index www.shortscale.org
Head 'n Neck Above
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
UploaderUploader   ShortScale WikiBuilder

Yet another Audio Interface Thread

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ShortScale Forum Index -> Playing Technique, Theory, Recording Tips, and Talk
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cobascis
.
.


Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 3830
Location: Mendocino, CA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:42 pm    Post subject: Yet another Audio Interface Thread Reply with quote

Does behringer make a mixing board that serves as a USB interface so you can record separate tracks on it? I looked around their site, but half of the links are 404s.

If not, what are the cheapest options to record at least 8 tracks at the same time onto separate tracks in a DAW?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Al_
.
.


Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 509084
Location: Vista, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think USB interfaces at this point top out at about 4 individual inputs (e.g., separate recordable tracks). To get anything higher, you need a firewire or other custom PCI interface. You could look into used Presonus and Digi 002/002R interfaces that are likley fairly affordable at this point. How many preamps do you need?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cobascis
.
.


Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 3830
Location: Mendocino, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al_ wrote:
I think USB interfaces at this point top out at about 4 individual inputs (e.g., separate recordable tracks). To get anything higher, you need a firewire or other custom PCI interface. You could look into used Presonus and Digi 002/002R interfaces that are likley fairly affordable at this point. How many preamps do you need?


Firewire is fine as I used macs.

For now I'm just looking to be able to have a mic'd drumset (4-5 mics) mic'd amp, and bass di. 6-8 total
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cobascis
.
.


Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 3830
Location: Mendocino, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you think of these (for the life of me I do not understand ins and outs)

If an input doesnt have a preamp, does that mean I can run my (2) TubeMP preamps into those inputs?

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Alesis-MultiMix-8-USB-FX?sku=486142

vs this:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Alesis-MultiMix-8-USB-Blaze It-8Channel-Mixer?sku=801473
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
aen
Turdscreamer


Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 7546
Location: ELECTRIC WARRIOR

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recommend the presonus firepod. 8 channels, something like ten outs, which Is pretty handy in the studio and we use it onstage as well. It really disagrees with the combo of my buddy's iMac/ableton live, has been rock star in all other situations.

Inputs have a slight dip on the hi mids, so those get bumped up in te DAW first thing.
_________________
High quality, low popularity Ecstatic Fury
https://theronaldraygun.bandcamp.com/album/surrender-dorothy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Al_
.
.


Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 509084
Location: Vista, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That first one is just a 2-channel interface, meaning you can record the main stereo ouput of the mixer from the USB output.

The second one is a bit confusing, and the specs on teh MF website are a bit unclear to me. Here's what it says:

Quote:
It sends 10 signals via USB Blaze It: each of the eight input tracks, plus the left and right channels of the final stereo mix. You can record all eight inputs plus the main mix, which can be recorded with effects.


It would seem it may allow up to 10 simultaneous recording inputs--but I'm not completely sure. It may be a case where you can assign any of the input tracks/final stereo mix to the USB output in some combinatin less than 10; or potentially 10 tracks simultaneously. Maybe check the Alesis website directly and see if it's more clear. If so that's certainly an affordable option to get 10 A/D converters + 4 mic preamps and 2 stereo line inputs.

/edit here's one of the reviews. The control on "only 4-inputs" doesn't really surprise me as the stereo line level inputs you'd likely need something in front of to get good signals off a mic (e.g., your TubeMPs). The bigger concern would be the ability of the USB Blaze It connection to really process 10 channels of discrete audio, which according to the comments this unit seems to struggle with a bit. I'd go with a Firewire interface of some sort if it's in your budget.

Quote:
So i bought this mainly to record drums but found out soon enough that even though is boast 10 inputs you really only have control over 4 of the ten inputs, there is no mic/gain for the stereo inputs or the main mix inputs just volume knobs. You can still get a decent mix but it need more channels. 2nd the drivers, if you have 64 bit vista you will need to download the drivers from their website.3rd this thing works when it wants to, it tends to overload even with the latency real low. it shutters randomly and tends to skip when using it as a sound card, if you are listening to say Itunes or watching youtube. I tried hooking it up a tape machine up too and i really couldn't get the gain loud enough. pre amps are decent, cubase is nice too but the knobs are real cheap and flimsy and there are no xlr outputs. the mixer is not my favorite. I had a behrigher mixer that was half the price and it was worked much better. I expected more from alesis. really you are paying for the multi track recording and it really isn't that good. Save your money buy something with more inputs and better drivers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cobascis
.
.


Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 3830
Location: Mendocino, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm interesting, Al.

I guess it would make send to go the extra 100$ and settle with a firepod.

The studio my band just made our first album at used 2 linked Firestudios.

I'm a bit fuzzy on what you actually need to record. Typically i've done it into a board then stereo-outted.

For example at the studio we recorded at there was a whole rack of units including a Presonus Central Station (http://www.presonus.com/products/detail.aspx?productid=1)

What do you definitely need to record an album or EP in decent quality (other than Mics)?

I/my band has:

Macbook
3 TubeMP tube pre amps
mics
old peavy 8 channel mixing board (would this be any use if I had a Firepod)?

Thanks for the replies
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
aen
Turdscreamer


Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 7546
Location: ELECTRIC WARRIOR

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wont need that mixer for recording with a firepod. You ahve chaaaannnnaaaalllllsssss all day!
_________________
High quality, low popularity Ecstatic Fury
https://theronaldraygun.bandcamp.com/album/surrender-dorothy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Al_
.
.


Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 509084
Location: Vista, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cobascis wrote:
What do you definitely need to record an album or EP in decent quality (other than Mics)?

I/my band has:

Macbook
3 TubeMP tube pre amps
mics
old peavy 8 channel mixing board (would this be any use if I had a Firepod)?

Thanks for the replies


If you want to record up to 8 channels simultaneously you'll need 8 mics, 8 preamps (though a bass DI could go in at line level), and 8 A/D (analog to digital) converters; then some interface that get's the conversion into your Mac. If you've got the 3 TubeMPs you've got 3 channels worth of preamps already. Not that familiar with the Peavy mixers. If it's mainly a live sound board then it's functionality could be limited. What you want is a direct output or insert on each channel. With these, you can use the preamps on each individual channel of the mixer and get a dedicated signal out of that channel to route to your A/D converter box. As AEN inndicated above, a lot of converter boxes come with a certain number of built-in preamps; obviating the need for the external mixer or TubeMP type preamps. For instance, the Digi 002R has 4 built in preamp channels and 4 line level input channels--for a total of 8 onboard D/A converters. For the line level inputs, you need an external preamp of some sort; for the four channels with built in preamps, you can use those directly and they typically have an XLR input. If you're partial to your TubeMPs you might seek out a conversion box that has at least a few line level inputs so you can use them. Beyond all that you need a recording program that works with whatever conversion box you've got. In alot of cases, a software program comes bundled with the interface so you can just go with that. Then there are programs like Reaper or even the new Protools version 9 that can interface with multiple conversion devices.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cobascis
.
.


Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 3830
Location: Mendocino, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Al_ wrote:
cobascis wrote:
What do you definitely need to record an album or EP in decent quality (other than Mics)?

I/my band has:

Macbook
3 TubeMP tube pre amps
mics
old peavy 8 channel mixing board (would this be any use if I had a Firepod)?

Thanks for the replies


If you want to record up to 8 channels simultaneously you'll need 8 mics, 8 preamps (though a bass DI could go in at line level), and 8 A/D (analog to digital) converters; then some interface that get's the conversion into your Mac. If you've got the 3 TubeMPs you've got 3 channels worth of preamps already. Not that familiar with the Peavy mixers. If it's mainly a live sound board then it's functionality could be limited. What you want is a direct output or insert on each channel. With these, you can use the preamps on each individual channel of the mixer and get a dedicated signal out of that channel to route to your A/D converter box. As AEN inndicated above, a lot of converter boxes come with a certain number of built-in preamps; obviating the need for the external mixer or TubeMP type preamps. For instance, the Digi 002R has 4 built in preamp channels and 4 line level input channels--for a total of 8 onboard D/A converters. For the line level inputs, you need an external preamp of some sort; for the four channels with built in preamps, you can use those directly and they typically have an XLR input. If you're partial to your TubeMPs you might seek out a conversion box that has at least a few line level inputs so you can use them. Beyond all that you need a recording program that works with whatever conversion box you've got. In alot of cases, a software program comes bundled with the interface so you can just go with that. Then there are programs like Reaper or even the new Protools version 9 that can interface with multiple conversion devices.


http://www.presonus.com/products/detail.aspx?productid=3

The firepod includes 8 preamps, and I think A/D converters.

If I could find a cheaper interface that had 6 preamps and 2 line levels, that would work as well -- I could just use existing TubeMPs like you said. I have a copy of Logic and Garageband so my software needs are met.

As I understand it, the bare bones setup would be:

Mics
Presonus FirePod (or similar)
DAW
Monitors
Cables

What else would you reccomend? Some sort of controller for the DAW/Monitors?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Al_
.
.


Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 509084
Location: Vista, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Firepod would likely act as your main interface and have monitor and headphone type outputs, so you'd be cool there. You'd need some monitors to listen back on/mix with; maybe a headphone amp? Those can be dead handy if you want to provide you want to simultaneously record drums, bass and guitar and limit the amount of bleed you get. Behringer actually makes a 4-channel one of those that's decent (I bought one used 7-8 years ago and it's still going strong). At minimum you'd need a decent set of headphones to listen to stuff with and you're good to go.

Just be advised that this recording stuff is slow whirlpool of financial drainage that will eventually consume all of your disposable income (and some that is not); unless of course you can keep the proper "budget recording perspective" through force of will or providence. In any case, it's a ton of fun.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aen
Turdscreamer


Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 7546
Location: ELECTRIC WARRIOR

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Behringer makes a pretty decent headphone amp thing, comes in reeeeeeeeeally handy.

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-AMP800-MiniAMP-4Channel-Stereo-Headphone-Amplifier?sku=182040

This one has 2 channels, too, so if you split your outputs up your peeps can hear different instruments.
_________________
High quality, low popularity Ecstatic Fury
https://theronaldraygun.bandcamp.com/album/surrender-dorothy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Al_
.
.


Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 509084
Location: Vista, CA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to amend my previous posts regarding USB interfaces. Apparently there's a new generation of interfaces using the USB Blaze It protocol that can handle up to 8+ ins and outs. Good to know; and they're apparently no all as potentially dodgy as the Alesis unit linked above. The current issue of TapeOp has a review of this unit from Roland:

http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1127&ParentId=104

From the review, it sounds really nice and well built. It has 8 builtin preamps; so potentially overkill for the OP's needs; but the pres are apparently decent qualtiy so it may be worth considering anyway. It's selling for $600 which may be a bit above the target budget; but could be worth saving for as it's got a pretty cool feature set for its price point. Worth considering IMO.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
serfx
ss.o bastard son


Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 6405
Location: Edmonton Alberta

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aen wrote:
I recommend the presonus firepod. 8 channels, something like ten outs, which Is pretty handy in the studio and we use it onstage as well. It really disagrees with the combo of my buddy's iMac/ableton live, has been rock star in all other situations.

Inputs have a slight dip on the hi mids, so those get bumped up in te DAW first thing.


this is what Zero Cool uses to record, though we use Cubase 5 for software
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rushkoff
.
.


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 103
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aen wrote:
I recommend the presonus firepod. 8 channels, something like ten outs, which Is pretty handy in the studio and we use it onstage as well. It really disagrees with the combo of my buddy's iMac/ableton live, has been rock star in all other situations.

Inputs have a slight dip on the hi mids, so those get bumped up in te DAW first thing.


+1

I managed to pick my Firepod up cheap last year on Fleabay and it's been perfect to me! Works very well with Logic.
_________________
http://somanyanimalcalls.bandcamp.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ShortScale Forum Index -> Playing Technique, Theory, Recording Tips, and Talk All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Anti Bot Question MOD - phpBB MOD against Spam Bots
Blocked registrations / posts: 606851 / 0

Guitars at Musician's Friend

Help support this site by clicking the above link!