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Pressing tracks to vinyl.
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kingoftherodeo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:47 am    Post subject: Pressing tracks to vinyl. Reply with quote

Is this an expensive proccess? I am recording in september, but aswell as pressing the tracks to CD I would like to press a couple to vinyl too. Anyone got any sort of experience with this type of thing?
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Simon
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends how many you want pressing really - if you literally only want a 'couple' pressed then it wouldn't really be worth your money. Infact I'm not even sure you can get them pressed in single quantities. Like anything I think it tends to start getting cheaper the more you have pressed...
Searching in Google seems to yield a fair few results so just have a scout around and I'm sure you can get a good deal from somewhere.

Vinyl Pressing
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kingoftherodeo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a million for that. I wouldn't want too many doing, due to the, somewhat, lack of interest in vinyl these days. But if I could get maybe 50 ish done, I think that would be a really cool thing to have! I have a pretty small but decent collection of vinyl myself so this would be great. Thanks again for the link!
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Simon
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kingoftherodeo wrote:
Thanks a million for that. I wouldn't want too many doing, due to the, somewhat, lack of interest in vinyl these days. But if I could get maybe 50 ish done, I think that would be a really cool thing to have! I have a pretty small but decent collection of vinyl myself so this would be great. Thanks again for the link!


You'd be surprised, loads of people still love vinyl! A lot of bands start out doing limited runs of 7" singles.

I guess the sensible approach would be to get as many pressed as you thought you could realistically sell. Don't go spending a fortune on a 1000 run pressing when really only 100 people may buy it. That's just common sense though, I'm sure you know that.
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stewart
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've looked into it before and it's expensive, especially in the uk as there's only a couple (maybe even one) pressing plants left. Some brokers will get them pressed in europe, as costs are often lower. If it's just for the sake of vanity i wouldn't bother.
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kingoftherodeo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stewart wrote:
I've looked into it before and it's expensive, especially in the uk as there's only a couple (maybe even one) pressing plants left. Some brokers will get them pressed in europe, as costs are often lower. If it's just for the sake of vanity i wouldn't bother.


It does seem a little pointless to get them pressed in Europe just to sell a small amount. Thanks.
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stewart
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant the company you go to will sometimes get the pressing done in europe, which makes it cheaper for you, if you catch my drift. When you get vinyl pressed it's generally done through a 3rd party of some sort. If you approach a pressing plant yourself they'll likely tell you to beat it. Hope that makes sense... I'm essentially saying 'shop around'.
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kingoftherodeo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah right. I get you now. Took a while but I'm there!
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aen
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know next to nothing about it. But our record label probably does.

http://www.deadformat.net/
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serfx
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the mixes for vinyl, and cd should be different as we hear both formats differently, unfortunatly i can not find my notes on mastering for vinyl vs mastering for CD, i suspect they are sitting at the jam studio.
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paul_
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

serfx wrote:
the mixes for vinyl, and cd should be different as we hear both formats differently, unfortunatly i can not find my notes on mastering for vinyl vs mastering for CD, i suspect they are sitting at the jam studio.


This is from customrecords.com, a novelty one-offs dealie

Hidden: 
  • Do not over compress, over EQ or over process your program. Make your mixes sound satisfying to you.
  • Normalize levels from -2db to 0db so all album tracks have same peak volume.
  • For best vinyl sound place your loudest brightest most important music on the outer tracks and quiet subdued material on the inner tracks.
  • Do not include loud level out-of-phase signals in your master. If using a phase meter keep it in the positive range.
  • Watch out for ultra high frequency signals. WARN US of any abnormal sustained high frequency content.
  • Keep sibilance ("sss" and "shh" sounds) to a minimum by de-essing where necessary.
  • Blend or mono-ize the bass frequencies. Do not pan low bass frequencies left or right.
  • WARN US of any surprises such as loud sudden transients, deep low bass, longer than normal silent passage, etc.


Why is it so important for mixes to be mostly in phase and the bass being in mono?


Phase is more or less irrelevant to CD but when mastering to vinyl it's very important.

If the mix is in phase (mono), the cutter stylus will move from left to right - if the mix is out of phase (stereo) it causes the stylus to move up and down. Too much up and down movement (out-of-phase) will produce a groove that's too shallow or interrupted. This will cause the playback needle to leave the groove or jump. If the low bass is in stereo (out-of-phase) the cutter stylus might leave the surface of the record thus leaving the plate unusable.

How do I know if my mix is too much out of phase?

Most software has a built in phase meter which should stay in the positive range.

Try listening to your tracks in mono, ideally there shouldn't be a big difference when listening to your tracks in stereo vs mono. If you switch between stereo and mono, kick/bass should stay in the center.

Is there anything I should take care of when doing an album or LP?

Place the brightest loudest most important tracks first as every record sounds best at the beginning (outer grooves). The quiet more subdued tracks should be at the end of the record. Please note a 12" disc will always sound better than a smaller plate due to the higher groove speed at the outer grooves. Try listening to any 12" record and compare the beginning of the plate with the end, there will be much more hi-end at the beginning. Also, 45 speed will sound better than 33 speed per same size disc.

For loud dance music with lots of drum & bass or loud hi-hats we definitely recommend a 12" DJ dubplate vinyl record (8 minutes per side) -- particularly for drum & bass and hip hop, where loudness and lots of bass are most important.

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Mages
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mastering is different for every medium. CD, Cassette, Vinyl, Film, TV, Youtube, Myspace, etc. They're all going to have to be mastered differently to sound best in that medium.
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awfurby
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how good these guys are - but they do the mastering for you as well: Mobineko
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UlricvonCatalyst
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you have money to burn, pressing up 50 vinyl copies is an expensive indulgence.
The biggest expense is in set-up costs, so the unit cost of vinyl gets cheaper the more you have pressed.
As a guideline, the set-up cost alone for a double-sided 7" single (from Portalspace Records) is just over £400, not including label set-up and printing charges.
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stewart
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's where white labels, rubber stamps and making your own covers becomes a good idea. but yeah, it's still pricey whichever way you slice it.
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Mages
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UlricvonCatalyst wrote:
Unless you have money to burn, pressing up 50 vinyl copies is an expensive indulgence.
The biggest expense is in set-up costs, so the unit cost of vinyl gets cheaper the more you have pressed.
As a guideline, the set-up cost alone for a double-sided 7" single (from Portalspace Records) is just over £400, not including label set-up and printing charges.

exactly. the expensive part of the process is making the master, negative, mother, etc. that takes experienced technicians to to do that and it's a pretty complex process. once they have that though, they can press a ton of copies and it doesn't cost very much. some videos on the process:

Link


the part that they skip over in that first video they explain a bit more here:


Link
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Doog
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kingoftherodeo wrote:
Thanks a million for that. I wouldn't want too many doing, due to the, somewhat, lack of interest in vinyl these days.


You say that, but it's very much the done thing to do in underground punk/indie/metal circles. I guess those kinda genres inspire more High Fidelity-esque fanboyism and "snobbery" than your standard rock music though.
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gaybear
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i find that vinyl pressings are only cost effective at 500+

cd's are dirt cheap.

it's a bummer, but true.

vinyl does offer ability to enhance packaging though.
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Al_
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, and you never hear of people doing "split CDs"; but loads of bands do split 7-inches. Vinyl is a good format for that kind of mini-release.
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knpknpknp
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive run into a split 12 inch recently, which was nice. It would all depend on how long your release is.

If you were working on a longish e.p, then find another local band looking to do the same thing, and do a split, each album on one side.

At least with that, the cost would be split in half, and you would be (logically) selling double the quantities. That many more people will hear your music.
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