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Sight reading

 
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George
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Sight reading Reply with quote

Does anybody know of any good sight reading resources to learn from scratch or a low level of theory?

Ideally for the guitar and based around jazz, but if there is a broad idiots guide that is speedy I can probably do it on the piano

I know a bit of theory about scales, progressions, forming chords and modes but would really like to get sight reading to a decent level. Maybe just to the point where I can improv from a fake book

Thanks all
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lorez
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a good starting article from justin http://www.justinguitar.com/en/IM-126-OpenPositionNotes.php . It's from his intermediate course but there are more things on his site le he jazz lessons that would help.

Also in the recommended reading http://www.justinguitar.com/en/RE-001-GeneralGuitarBooks.php
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Gabriel
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you got a real book? One of the best ways to start out is to work through a different standard every day with a playalong (there are loads on youtube and spotify).

I've tried a lot of different books and I generally find them quite dull and disengaging so I find working through pieces a lot more productive.

You can also have a go at reading some violin etudes. They can be quite challenging technically but rhythmically tend to be less adventurous as jazz pieces so can be easier in terms of sight reading.

If you really want to dig into some books I think the one I found best was melodic rhythms for guitar, I've also got sight reading for the contemporary guitarist which is very good if you like a thorough approach.
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George
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks both, will have a read!

gabriel, i would say i would like somewhat of a thorough approach so may have a look at those books. and yes! i just bought the 6th edition of the real book. however i think playing from the real book alongside a more defined set of lessons for sight reading might be the best approach to help me on my way.

i currently have "jazz guitar technique in 20 weeks" by howard roberts but it's assumes a lot of prior knowledge and the programme sounds really repetitive and dull
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sunshiner
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm very weak as a guitarist and want to improve my guitar skills, too. But don't know from what point to start. There is almost no guitarist that impresses me. I don't like bare blues scale noodling, I don't like standard hardrock solos that all based on pentatonic and all sound the same, I hate heavy metall supersonic scale shredding. All I know at the moment is natural major and minor scales, blues scale and pentatonic, but I don't practice them a lot, cause it doesn't sound like music for me(except blues and pentatonic, but as I said I'm not a big fan) and it is fucking boring cause I don't see any motivation to excercise. I don't do legato excercises,apart from bending, for same reasons. I like lead guitar in "There she goes" by LA's, in "Friday I'm in love" by Cure for example, like some Django Reindhardt stuff, but all gypsy jazz is too much tricky for me, at least at the moment.
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George
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunshiner wrote:
I'm very weak as a guitarist and want to improve my guitar skills, too. But don't know from what point to start. There is almost no guitarist that impresses me. I don't like bare blues scale noodling, I don't like standard hardrock solos that all based on pentatonic and all sound the same, I hate heavy metall supersonic scale shredding. All I know at the moment is natural major and minor scales, blues scale and pentatonic, but I don't practice them a lot, cause it doesn't sound like music for me(except blues and pentatonic, but as I said I'm not a big fan) and it is fucking boring cause I don't see any motivation to excercise. I don't do legato excercises,apart from bending, for same reasons. I like lead guitar in "There she goes" by LA's, in "Friday I'm in love" by Cure for example, like some Django Reindhardt stuff, but all gypsy jazz is too much tricky for me, at least at the moment.


for that kind of jangly stuff i'd definitely check out johnny marr's work in the smiths. i think the best album is hatful of hollow to see him really shine.

it sounds to me like it might be worth looking at lessons from a jazz guitarist if you're bored and in a rut. i didn't really "get" things like chord formation, progressions and melody etc in terms of the underlying theory until i started learning jazz. i think that's just because jazz consciously takes advantage of these theoretical guidelines more than rock and blues, and there is more overall movement to observe.

and yeah django is undeniably one of the masters of jazz guitar, and guitar in general, but gypsy jazz may not be the best way to learn the fundamentals of jazz because it's in the harmonic minor scale - and also he's so quick and complex! spending time getting use to more standard II-V-I progressions etc might be a better way. a good teacher will set you off on something slow to start. "autumn leaves" and things like that probably, which is where i started
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sunshiner
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

George wrote:

for that kind of jangly stuff i'd definitely check out johnny marr's work in the smiths. i think the best album is hatful of hollow to see him really shine.

it sounds to me like it might be worth looking at lessons from a jazz guitarist if you're bored and in a rut. i didn't really "get" things like chord formation, progressions and melody etc in terms of the underlying theory until i started learning jazz. i think that's just because jazz consciously takes advantage of these theoretical guidelines more than rock and blues, and there is more overall movement to observe.

and yeah django is undeniably one of the masters of jazz guitar, and guitar in general, but gypsy jazz may not be the best way to learn the fundamentals of jazz because it's in the harmonic minor scale - and also he's so quick and complex! spending time getting use to more standard II-V-I progressions etc might be a better way. a good teacher will set you off on something slow to start. "autumn leaves" and things like that probably, which is where i started


Thank you. I think you are right about Marr, I like to listen him and it seems that today he gets deserved respect even more than in the days when the Smiths were an acting band. However to my shame I've really listened only the most famous songs of them. I learned how to play This Charming man riff, but without any understanding of its structure and what I'm actually playing. I will listen the album that you recommended.

Being in the rut sounds too great in my case, cause I'm only a starter who can't cope even with basics, I'm not sure that I'll cope with jazz theory. At the moment I'm trying to find a teacher to study theory, I know that there are some jazz guitarists in my town, though I'm pretty sure they don't teach. But again thank you for your advices, I checked Autumn leaves and it's quite a beutiful peace of music.
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George
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunshiner wrote:
Thank you. I think you are right about Marr, I like to listen him and it seems that today he gets deserved respect even more than in the days when the Smiths were an acting band. However to my shame I've really listened only the most famous songs of them. I learned how to play This Charming man riff, but without any understanding of its structure and what I'm actually playing. I will listen the album that you recommended.

Being in the rut sounds too great in my case, cause I'm only a starter who can't cope even with basics, I'm not sure that I'll cope with jazz theory. At the moment I'm trying to find a teacher to study theory, I know that there are some jazz guitarists in my town, though I'm pretty sure they don't teach. But again thank you for your advices, I checked Autumn leaves and it's quite a beutiful peace of music.


you're very welcome!

yeah i love johnny's style. this charming man has great guitar parts, but a lot of the other big smiths hits don't have that much (panic, there is a light that never goes out, etc)

hatful of hollow has some great parts. songs like still ill, girl afraid and back to the old house are marr at his best in my opinion:


Link


Link


Link


well the whole album is great really.

and regarding jazz lessons, i see what you're saying, but lessons are really a great thing to help you along whatever you feel your skill level is! if you can play this charming man and know your major scales and pentatonic etc, i think that's a great place to be
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sunshiner
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm listening a remastered in 2011 version of Hatful of Hollow here
http://music.yandex.ru/#!/album/299260
It is a Russian music portal, I don't know if it allows users from Europe and The US to listen music or there is a restriction. The album sounds great, Johnny's parts are always unusual and some riffs are kick ass. I noticed songs in this version sound a little bit different, at least This Charming Man and maybe How soon is now?.
George wrote:
and regarding jazz lessons, i see what you're saying, but lessons are really a great thing to help you along whatever you feel your skill level is! if you can play this charming man and know your major scales and pentatonic etc, i think that's a great place to be


I guess you are right, some small victories in playing really inspire and with excercising there are always more of such small achievements.
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Last edited by sunshiner on Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sunshiner
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last song on this album is just brilliant, one of the best rock poets at his best
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George
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, there's a 2011 remaster? i'm gonna definitely check that out
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George
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

those two books you recommended have arrived gabriel. they both assume a bit more knowledge than i have or can remember, especially the melodic rhythms book

need to brush up elsewhere
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Gabriel
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you read through all the early chapters of the tom dempsey book you should be ok, although it's not the most thorough guide to the theory it covers enough as to work through the book.

I'd also check out jazzology, it's a nice basic jazz theory book. It doesn't go too heavily into the theory but should give you enough to pursue the kind of things you want to do - you can always go more indepth with the mark levine theory book later.

http://www.4shared.com/get/z5jIWcBu/Jazzology.html?sd=true

Also most jazz books are available online in photocopied pdf form. It's quite rare that you won't be able to find a book.
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