Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: When you can't quite get that sound...
For a few months I've been messing around at home doing Rock covers and with the gear I have there hasn't been much problem getting close to the sounds I'm copying.
Enter Metallica.
I can't get near Hetfields sound. I've blamed the Amp, cab size, string gauge...
I'm using the Orange Tiny Terror with a 1x12 and I've tried the Amp gain with the tone low, the Amp clean with various pedals like a tubescreamer, Marshall jackhammer, boss ds-2. It's close to the older sound but not the 'Load' era.
I've tried a Jackson with an EMG 81, SG with a Gibson pickup, none of it sounds right. It's thin and lacks that low end thud.
Then I considered string gauge, I'm using 9's. Maybe bottom heavy strings would give me better results?
Without software has anyone got any ideas?
Obviously a Mesa is out of the question but there must be an easier way.
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: When you can't quite get that sound...
Fran wrote:
a 1x12 [...] and lacks that low end thud
The rhythm tone has a lot more beefy, proper 'low' resonance that you can't really get out of a single 12" cab in a room (you could probably processs the fuck out of it in the studio, tho). I've recorded a lot with my DSL50 using 4x12, 2x12 and 1x12s, SM57 and the 1x12 always sounded waaaaay more mid-focused; just a matter of physics, innit. My old PA cab CAB gets vaguely close as it's nearer the size of a 2x12 and solid as fuck, and obviously closed-back.
I'd say "EQ pedal in the FX loop" would be the most effective way to get anywhere near, cutting the woofier lower mids to sound less boxy, and so as you're not limited to the amp's EQ stack but...
Fran wrote:
Orange Tiny Terror
No fx loop. Those amps are great, but it's not a chunky modern metal rhythm tone machine; they're don't have the transformer to really push those lows, as well as it having a single tone control.
Related: I really miss how my Marshall sounds through a 2x12
I'd say that you've set yourself a bit of a challenge there, trying to get a Tiny Terror and a 112 to have that sound. I think that's maybe the fun in doing this, though, that you set yourself certain limits and then try to make it work. Like, if you really want to get that sound, get a half stack.
George's suggestion could be a winner. Or, get a 212. Did you have the Line 6 Flextone? _________________
Joined: 02 Nov 2012 Posts: 5017 Location: Around the corner
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject:
I've no idea what Metallica sounds like apart from Nothing else matter and Enter sandman. Anyway, my 2 cents would be, find a Les Paul type guitar where neck pickup sits next to the 22nd fret and with a good humbucker you'll get the fatest tone possible. Neck pickups on SG and all kind of superstrats sit way back closer to bridge. On SG it is a part of the design, on superstrats it's because of 24 frets fretboard.
Or tune down an SG/superstrat a half step _________________
When I posted the thread up it reminded me of one of those n00b threads you see on somewhere like Ultimate Guitar forum but... it is fucking difficult!
George, I tried pushing the Amp but not cascading pedals. The sound has less gain than you think so I'd not tried that.
No Line 6 anymore Paul.
Doog, I think you're right. I'd not considered the limitations of the Tiny Terror or 1x12 cab beforehand, they've coped with stuff like AC/DC, Sabbath and even Sepultura, but they all use a lot of mids.
The cab is obvious but I thought I'd get away with processing the signal.
My last roll of the dice with this rig is trying the Sansamp GT2 clone by Behringer on the Californian setting. I seem to remember the clean mode with the drive maxed out was quite a thuddy thrash tone.
I'm quite enjoying this little adventure, it's got me playing again and learning new stuff. It's more challenging than you think as well
and you also need the top-of-the-line model, because you'll need a full 3-band eq which your amp doesn't have. You have to cut the mids a bit and boost the bass. _________________
Thanks Fakir.
I thought I'd achieve similar with the Marshall Jackhammer as the EQ on them is really good. But it wasn't quite there.
I've found some interesting stuff on the Digitech RP1000 Multi FX and I've actually got one of these gathering dust.
It gives you cab options and much more EQ than the TT.
This guy on YouTube has done a great demo with a link to all the settings.
Quote:
Load - Load and Reload are actually my favorite Metallica albums. Less layering, no comb filtering (that I can hear), and a fairly dry room makes modelers happy when trying to recreate tones. The only thing lacking is that "tubey" character IMO.
Dist - Screamer (G25,T50,L99)
Amp - '89 RG100 (G50,B5,M5,T5,L75)
Cab - DigiAlt 4x12
pEQ - Low (+9dB@90hz,Q3); Mid (-9dB@500Hz,Q3); High (+5dB@3kHz,Q2)
Reverb - LexStudio (0ms,D25,V25,L35)
Try Orange Dark Terror. The mini ones are kinda cheap.
You can't get that kind of distortion with the Micro Dark, not sure about the Dark Terror. The Micro Dark simply doesn't have enough distortion.
Also, I find the eq is too fiddly (had a Micro Dark). You can cut the mids, but you lose all control over the low/high balance. You might get the tones you want if you get lucky with the speaker.
The middle of the range Metal Muff has the same eq type. I find it useless, you need at least two knobs to seriously control the sound.
Actually I've gotten tones similar to the video I posted (that video is not mine) with a Pocket Metal Muff and parametric eq pedal to cut the mids. You can control the low/high balance with the tone knob on the amp. For this reason, I think the Tiny Terror and Micro Terror are more useful than the Darks. _________________
If you've got a half decent computer or an iPad or summat I can 100% recommend Amplitube and the lot.
Every now and then I do a 'lets play along with this album and try to nail the sound' and I get pretty fucking close; amp and pedal models are fucking bonkers nowdays.
I kinda like the Load/Reload guitar sounds...it's more hard rock than metal, so I prefer it over the buzzy thrashy tone of their early stuff. I still enjoy Ride the Lightning and Puppets, but it's not a sound that I've ever felt the urge to emulate.
The speaker could well be part of the problem...Oranges are usually fitted with V30s so if that's what's in yours, you could try something like a GT-75 or even a hot 100 for a flatter response instead of the V30's upper mids peak. If it's only a 1x12 you're using, it's relatively easy to do. Zilla do 'em with any Celestion you want for as little as £300.
Otherwise, there's the option of a post-distortion pedal eq...Sansamps are great for that. I remember how my old BDDI could completely transform the sound with a guitar, even through a midrangey amp like a Blackstar HT-5. They still make the "US Metal" version of the 'character' series, which might give a more Recto sort of chug. A quick bit of googling mentions Triaxis preamps and Mk IICs, so I suppose the Mesa route is an easy one. I might give my F50's gain channel a try later this week and see what it can do!
I kinda like the Load/Reload guitar sounds...it's more hard rock than metal, so I prefer it over the buzzy thrashy tone of their early stuff. I still enjoy Ride the Lightning and Puppets, but it's not a sound that I've ever felt the urge to emulate.
The speaker could well be part of the problem...Oranges are usually fitted with V30s so if that's what's in yours, you could try something like a GT-75 or even a hot 100 for a flatter response instead of the V30's upper mids peak. If it's only a 1x12 you're using, it's relatively easy to do. Zilla do 'em with any Celestion you want for as little as £300.
Otherwise, there's the option of a post-distortion pedal eq...Sansamps are great for that. I remember how my old BDDI could completely transform the sound with a guitar, even through a midrangey amp like a Blackstar HT-5. They still make the "US Metal" version of the 'character' series, which might give a more Recto sort of chug. A quick bit of googling mentions Triaxis preamps and Mk IICs, so I suppose the Mesa route is an easy one. I might give my F50's gain channel a try later this week and see what it can do!
I like those two albums for the same reason.
Tried the Sansamp clone, getting closer. It's almost a clean distortion but sounds aggressive.
Dug out the Digitech modelling fx but I've lost the bastard adaptor and its one of those opposite polarity type things
Doog, I know what your saying but I'm almost a stuck in the past technophobe. This shit might get to band level as well so I want an array of sounds to hand that's portable.
Doog, I know what your saying but I'm almost a stuck in the past technophobe. This shit might get to band level as well so I want an array of sounds to hand that's portable.
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