Guitar Construction

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:04 pm

I'd like peoples opinions on something i plan to do.
I've done a lot of research today and next year if all goes well im planning to build my own guitar design.
From a construction point of view i'm going to borrow heavily from Lindert and early Danelectro and also try to find more information out about Gibson Kalamazoo models.
MDF bodies with possibly an option of a vinyl finish, if i do use vinyl i will also try a plywood body as finishing the edges will no longer be a problem and there seems to be a lot of claims plywood has better tone to MDF.
The necks will be pre-ordered and i may reshape headstocks.

Designwise i want to create something funky, not as OTT as 'Italia', something with a more simplistic retro flavor. Using these materials and construction methods i should be able to keep costs low for a non mass produced instrument and also possibly make it more 'personal'.
I have outlets and ebay certainly is not high up on my priorities there. I'd rather people try before they buy, the good old fashioned way.

I'd like to hear any opinions, do the materials sound inferior? Do youse think intermediate/experienced players would buy an MDF guitar?

robert(original) · Post by **robert(original)** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:26 pm

i wouldn't market them as mdf or plywood, but rather home built custom guitars.
and you know as well as i, tone comes more from the pups and your amp(+playing style) than the wood.
so as long you do the job right(which i know you will) you will most likely have something to bragg about.

jcyphe · Post by **jcyphe** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:47 pm

I was planning on doing a guitar line of my own designs but Made in China to my specs. I calculated the costs and did a lot of good research but in the end the project was too much money/gamble for me and I didn't want to bring in investors. I think on a custom level there is some market for unusual designs. I think on mainstream level it's not there.

Joey · Post by **Joey** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:12 am

I think if you price it right... got something "unique" handmade, people will follow.

The biggest thing though... gotta get tooled up. It ain't cheap.

What scares you about necks Fran? The neck back profile, radius board or the fretwork?

r40f · Post by **r40f** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:24 am

i like plywood fine for a guitar. that doesn't turn me off unless the price was inhibitive. but i am also not a typical guitar consumer, i have really weird preferences.

my only suggestion is to do a prototype first... then you can have a working model and gauge the interest of potential buyers, maybe even take pre-orders.

good luck with it, i'm looking forward to seeing your designs.

endsjustifymeans · Post by **endsjustifymeans** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:37 am

If they look as good as the franrite, I'm in.

aen · Post by **aen** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:22 am

DO IT. Who the fuck would have thought anyone would buy Great Destroyers, much less, like 100 somebodies?

If nothing else, at least you have a cool ass guitar for yourself, and a day job to fall back on.

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:26 am

Thanks for the feedback. Some good tips there.
It will definitely be a sideline like aen was saying and definitely a one man band custom thing.
It's a case of being realistic, I know a luthier that makes guitars in the tradtional way, the neck, exotic veneers and winds his own pickups etc. It's all very impressive but he is isolating a large section of the Market due to covering his costs. Â£600 is a lot for your average guy to pay out for a guitar, let alone a no-name guitar.
I have a small set up that could cope with my idea of construction, if I start jointing hardwood blanks and making necks it becomes a problem. I don't have the workspace nor the bench machinery.
Joey- I can buy decent quality necks with a blank headstock for less than the timber to build one would cost me. No point, it would not make sense at the early stages. Not ruling it out in future though, all being well.

stewart · Post by **stewart** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:14 pm

if you're thinking of using materials like MDF or plywood it would maybe help if you had some good quality videos and A/B some different guitars, cos a lot of people will automatically laugh at the thought of those materials without considering that they might actually sound decent. if you can turn round and say "well, i've compared this guitar to a [insert type here] and i think it stands up, and here's the proof" then it might stand you in good stead.

cur · Post by **cur** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:59 pm

I would think that you should make something that you personally like and can be proud of, but tailor it to a defined market. For example middle age dude with job and guitar fetish may not be your market (MDF or plywood). They tend to like brands and $$ for guitars. But cool, maybe retroish styling at a not too much cost with a metal or raunchy sound to it and you might catch the eye of 15-20 yr old rock star wannabe. It will be hard to beat affinity squier at what they do so you may want to be notch up in price, but with some unique style that is not too extreme in either direction.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:19 pm

I think as long as you're up-front about the materials, people (diehard tonehounds excluded) really won't give a hoot - just look at Jerry Jones guitars; market them properly as player's guitars, designed by a working guitarist and craftsman, and you'll have no problem: I think peoples' worries with new or prototype guitars is that firstly, they can look like prototype guitars, and secondly, if you've got something with kerr-azy contruction and the builder goes bust within 12 months, you could be left with a weird, faulty guitar.
Stress the honest-to-goodness-ness of the design ethos and build, and make a big show of warranty (and keep them cheap) and you'll be well away. I'll buy one if you make one with a big beefy neck (as long as it doesn't look like some sort of pointy abortion).

DGNR8 · Post by **DGNR8** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:37 pm

I have seen some great guitars built from regular boards that have been glued together. Not technically all that different from plywood, but better presentation. Just a thought. If you're serious about building, you may want to try a few diff methods and see what works.

I think part of the boutique market is doing what you did with the Mosrite, which is to make choices for people. Hit me with your best shot, kind of thing.

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:08 pm

benecol wrote:just look at Jerry Jones guitars

Thanks for that Tim, i read their website.. cool theme. No mention of Masonite though but i suppose they confirm this with "~ They don't make 'em like they used to...so we do ~".

If anyone knows of companies using manufactured board i'd be interested to read up on it.

benecol · Post by **benecol** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:44 pm

*pumps fist at the thought of telling Fran something he didn't know about guitar*

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:48 pm

I've always been a wood snob, but 20 years on i prove myself wrong.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:59 pm

The older I get and the more experienced i get the less I think wood counts for much more than mystical mojo and awful PRS flametops. The resonance is mainly an acoustic, sounds louder unplugged, phenomenon and I'm not sure it impacts anywhere near as much as the bridge nut and pups on the plugged in sound.

I'd love to A/B two guitars with the exact specs but one built from a tonewood and the other from MDF or suchlike. Plus part of the appeal of guitars like the Danos is the type of build - at least to me. I think your idea sounds smashing and having followed your excellent mosrite thread I'm even more convinced that more Â£Â£Â£Â£ does not = better guitars always.

Where would you source the necks from? Will be looking at building Mustangs early next year with a friend and necks scare the hell out of me.

cur · Post by **cur** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:20 pm

I worry that the MDF does not have the strength that wood or ply does to keep the pointy Strat horns from breaking off. Tele's and LP would be a safer design for MDF.

Fran · Post by **Fran** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:02 pm

Black Cat Bone wrote:Where would you source the necks from? Will be looking at building Mustangs early next year with a friend and necks scare the hell out of me.

Im thinking more along the lines of 25.5 or 24.75, short scale necks are virtually non existent in the UK. Quite a lot of places (allparts, ebay dealers, etc.) now stock paddle headstock necks, or the generic Strat and Les Paul design. Your talking Â£40, they are'nt birds eye maple and dont play like silk but they are as good as most sub Â£300 guitars neck in my experience. The magical part is in the set-up with most average necks, we've all played Â£80 Squiers that felt fantastic.

cur wrote:I worry that the MDF does not have the strength that wood or ply does to keep the pointy Strat horns from breaking off. Tele's and LP would be a safer design for MDF.

Them Kalamazoo SGs seemed to have held up well albeit a smaller horn. I see what your saying, although, MDF is very dense and it would not be easy to physically snap a 36mm piece of MDF. The blow it would take would quite possible break alder or mahognay as well.
My main concern is around the neck pocket. Its only supported on one 18mm half of the MDF, even though its laminated together (virtually un-separable) it could be a weak spot. The Franrite and Lindert are vunerable to 'neck bends', especially in the use of a heavy handed player, BUT my MDF Strat is solid. Im assuming the fact it has a thick layer upon layer finish may help this.
If this is the case, it rules out any plans to use tolex/vinyl covering finishes. Unless i paint first.

cur · Post by **cur** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:03 pm

I cannot remember all of the construction details of you mosrite project, did you laminate two layers of MDF to get the thickness? You could laminate a thin layer of plywood (luan door skins) as a middle layer. That would give a backbone so the pocket would be stronger (spread the torsional stress over the whole body) and prevent the horns from breaking off. Wood snaps if the grain is cut the wrong way for the horn, but the MDF has no strong and weak orientation.

robrtnickerson · Post by **robrtnickerson** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:20 am

You could laminate a thin layer of plywood (luan door skins) as a middle layer

I was thinking the same thing, there are luan flooring underlayments that are free of voids and could work as well but would be thicker than the door skin. I work at a lumber yard and just look at all of our shit as possible guitar parts now.