hotrodperlmutter wrote:so it's settled then. everything effects tone, and whoever cares about tone should just fuck off and go buy a les paul, a strat, a marshall, and a silverface.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. I'm not losing any sleep over the fact that my mustang doesn't sound like a les paul. I have a mustang because I like it's tone. there's no good or bad here, it's just different flavors that are available for you to play with.
there is understandably some dislike towards the word due to it's overuse but tone is not just some mojo arrows hoodoo bullshit, it's a fundamental property of what makes up a sound. everyone outside of guitarists refer to it as timbre.
I guarantee in a blind test people most wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Jaguar with Jazzmaster pickups and a Jazzmaster. Even if you had everybody in the same room with their backs faced to the guitar; it still wouldn't be clear as to which was which.
And the point made that says if you change the location of playing a particular note proves my point even more, that a shortscale doesn't drastically change the tone; other than with open chords because you change the location of notes to provide the tone of a longer scale guitar. And even then with open chords things get so layered it would be extremely hard to tell.
I agree whole heartedly that, in theory, it will change the tone. Practically speaking, I don't think it really matters.
I have to say otherwise on the jazzmaster vs jaguar with jm pickups thing. If you were using the same gauge strings i can hear the difference in tension, the shorter scale tends to sound more plunky and the longer scale more snappy and sustains more. A 22.7" musicmaster and a 24" musicmaster definitely sound different.
no idea i agree it's more about feel, funny to read short scales sound warmer and regular scale has more twang because of tension which makes sense i guess but yet so many surfbands used shortscales not just strats and jazzmasters, those are very common in the genre too i guess but jags were/are very popular in that genre.
hotrodperlmutter wrote:so it's settled then. everything effects tone, and whoever cares about tone should just fuck off and go buy a les paul, a strat, a marshall, and a silverface.
hotrodperlmutter wrote:so it's settled then. everything effects tone, and whoever cares about tone should just fuck off and go buy a les paul, a strat, a marshall, and a silverface.
How do you make punk tonez?
That's all about what stickers you put on your guitar.... and how they effect the tone (make the guitar body vibrate differently).
The more stickers the more punk the tone becomes.
For example this acoustic guitar has the punkiest sound you've ever heard:
Here's some full on science using different scale lengths, guages and specrum analysis to see the measurable differences. not full proof but some interesting objective info:
portugalwillie wrote:I guarantee in a blind test people most wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a trannie with a fake penis and a penis. Even if you had everybody in the same room with their backs faced to the trannies; it still wouldn't be clear as to which was which.
hotrodperlmutter wrote:so it's settled then. everything effects tone, and whoever cares about tone should just fuck off and go buy a les paul, a strat, a marshall, and a silverface.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. I'm not losing any sleep over the fact that my mustang doesn't sound like a les paul. I have a mustang because I like it's tone. there's no good or bad here, it's just different flavors that are available for you to play with.
there is understandably some dislike towards the word due to it's overuse but tone is not just some mojo arrows hoodoo bullshit, it's a fundamental property of what makes up a sound. everyone outside of guitarists refer to it as timbre.
uh, yeah, i think you're looking too deep into it. i read your first response, before you edited, and i thought you understood what i was saying.
my well-disguised point was that every guitar sounds different. if you're so concerned with capturing the perfect toan, go buy the most common shit. the most played out stuff. you can't go wrong, those combinations will give you the most tonal variety without being seen playing a squier or a jackson with coil tapping, or a EVH gio thang or whatever.
these threads about what effects tone, etc., are fucking stupid. EVERYTHING EFFECTS TONE. AS SOON AS YOU ADMIT THAT THEN YOU CAN SHUT THE FUCK UP AND START PLAYING.
and cur: piss off. that thread helped me out, which was the point. if you have a problem with that somehow, then i'll stop looking to your posts seriously, rather than just a way to make a pointless jab.
scale might effect tone to some degree (i have reservations about the degree to which that is the case), but i think there are other factors that play a much, much larger role. i have an avri jag and an hh jag (cij, essentially), and they sound vastly different even though they're same shape and mostly identical build materials. they've got different bridges and electronics, and there's your sound difference. somebody said that a jag w/ jazzy pickups wouldn't sound like a jazzmaster. interesting claim, but i'd actually like to hear an a/b comparison. . . not to mention a clarification of which jazzy you're talking about. vintage? avri? cij? cp? something tells me that the tone (depending on the pickups) would fall somewhere in that range well enough to be virtually indistinguishable.
hotrodperlmutter wrote:EVERYTHING EFFECTS TONE. AS SOON AS YOU ADMIT THAT THEN YOU CAN SHUT THE FUCK UP AND START PLAYING.
This. Way too many variables. To me, the shorter guitars are a little bit darker, maybe thinner in the mids. I'm sure if you put some EMG's in a duo sonic, you could make all the Dave Mustaine noise you wanted and if you put some sweet old single coils in a Les Paul, you could probably get pretty close to Stevie Ray. This whole thing is also so subjective that it's almost not worth discussing. I like mental masturbation, so I'll post in the threads though.
yes, it's subjective. I agree, discussing which tone is "best" or as some have put it the "perfect tone", is stupid because of it's very subjective nature. but just discussing about the different ways that things effect tone is not subjective, it's merely observatory and educational. it's just informing yourself about something that you're putting time into. I will always choose the informed path over ignorance. I may later decide that some factors are largely irrelevant and can be ignored (finish type, tone woods, etc.) but I have come to that point though an informed decision not ignorance. admittedly, this is not a path for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with just not really caring about the details, but this is a discussion forum so naturally we are going to talk about this stuff. it seems a little silly if any time someone raises a point of discussion they just get replies of "shut up and play."
mage wrote:yes, it's subjective. I agree, discussing which tone is "best" or as some have put it the "perfect tone", is stupid because of it's very subjective nature. but just discussing about the different ways that things effect tone is not subjective, it's merely observatory and educational. it's just informing yourself about something that you're putting time into. I will always choose the informed path over ignorance. I may later decide that some factors are largely irrelevant and can be ignored (finish type, tone woods, etc.) but I have come to that point though an informed decision not ignorance. admittedly, this is not a path for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with just not really caring about the details, but this is a discussion forum so naturally we are going to talk about this stuff. it seems a little silly if any time someone raises a point of discussion they just get replies of "shut up and play."
I agree,,I learned alot from this forum..Thats why i joined.
mage wrote:yes, it's subjective. I agree, discussing which tone is "best" or as some have put it the "perfect tone", is stupid because of it's very subjective nature. but just discussing about the different ways that things effect tone is not subjective, it's merely observatory and educational. it's just informing yourself about something that you're putting time into. I will always choose the informed path over ignorance. I may later decide that some factors are largely irrelevant and can be ignored (finish type, tone woods, etc.) but I have come to that point though an informed decision not ignorance. admittedly, this is not a path for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with just not really caring about the details, but this is a discussion forum so naturally we are going to talk about this stuff. it seems a little silly if any time someone raises a point of discussion they just get replies of "shut up and play."
I agree,,I learned alot from this forum..Thats why i joined.
mage wrote:yes, it's subjective. I agree, discussing which tone is "best" or as some have put it the "perfect tone", is stupid because of it's very subjective nature. but just discussing about the different ways that things effect tone is not subjective, it's merely observatory and educational. it's just informing yourself about something that you're putting time into. I will always choose the informed path over ignorance. I may later decide that some factors are largely irrelevant and can be ignored (finish type, tone woods, etc.) but I have come to that point though an informed decision not ignorance. admittedly, this is not a path for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with just not really caring about the details, but this is a discussion forum so naturally we are going to talk about this stuff. it seems a little silly if any time someone raises a point of discussion they just get replies of "shut up and play."
I agree,,I learned alot from this forum..Thats why i joined.
me too lol
only because this is likely the only opportunity I'll get:
NOOOOOOOB
Last edited by Bacchus on Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I find scale length has more affect on sustain than tone. There is a difference in tone based on scale length, but it's really quite minor; measurable but not really meaningful.
As for playing the same note in different places proving the tone difference, that's not really a sound argument. Unless you're playing the same not on the same string at different tensions, you're changing too many other factors to say that you're making a controlled comparison. You're changing string length, tension, weight, sometimes even string materials (going between wound and unwound strings, for example). String length is NOT the only factor changing between an open A versus a fretted 5th fret E-string A. Perhaps if you have the same string gauge for both strings it would be a little more comparable...
Either way, like Reece said, it's all a drop in the ocean when it comes down to it. Minute differences really don't count.
ekwatts wrote:That's American cinema, that is. Fucking sparkles.
hotrodperlmutter wrote:so it's settled then. everything effects tone, and whoever cares about tone should just fuck off and go buy a les paul, a strat, a marshall, and a silverface.
Haha.
I still think its bollocks or at least to say you cannot categorize the differences based on scale length. Also, as i think Reece pointed out- playing through amplification with 23 EHX pedals pretty much cancels out any subtleties. Its like that old Tube vs Solid State argument, someone starts banging on about Tube Tonez rule yet they are using an EHX Pog-Muff and a Devi Ever Anal Probe Fuzzgazer or whatever.
johnniespring wrote:put a capo on your guitar. it shortens the scale. does the tone change?
I happen to think it does. Also changes when you fret chords and notes. I'd argue that each note played on each string has a different tone.
+1 you can play the exact some note or pitch on many places on the guitar but they all sound different.
but that's different to what i said. you are saying something like playing a note on the 5th fret of the d string sounds different to playing the 10th fret of the a string even though it's the same pitch. i agree. but that's not what i was saying. so, try playing at the 5th fret on the d string on your guitar, then put a capo on the first fret and play the 5th fret on the d string. you've effectively changed the scale length, but is there a noticable difference in tone?
