ShortScale.org

George wrote:

ZenJenga wrote:

aen wrote: I bet you're joking.
BUT IF YOU'RE NOT

Bass, sure, it's easy to plunk out some shit. But to actually play it as an instrument is 100x harder than playing guitar. Your shitty guitar technique might sound fine, but throw that at a bass, and you sound like a real idiot. The dynamic range (even on an electric bass) is so much broader than a guitar, it demands a much higher level of control. Then, if you're playing with a band, there's the challenge of actually playing good notes. A guitar can flip flap around the time, bend shit notes into good ones, and generally wail because it's a very expressive, vocal instrument. But few thing sound worse in a rock band context than a guitarist shitting all over the bass.

this. PLUS you have to play dead on time to the drummer to be a proper bassist. Bassists that fail to do this sound real bad. You can feel it in your gut when a bassist is off. Can totally kill an otherwise good live experience.

absolutely agree with this as well and was joking of course. the first time i played loudly to an audience with a huge and sexy amp was when i realised how hard and complex playing bass is. there is a lot to think about constantly with dynamics, timbre, volume, tone. really cool.

but i mean, for the purposes of playing the right root notes and "getting up on stage" bass is pretty easy.

its one of those "easy to pass, impossible to master" instruments.

Dunno that I'd necessarily agree with the "easy to pass" bit. Our lead guitarist plays bass on some songs, and I play guitar or baritone type bass work, and there's a marked difference in the bass when he's playing. Bass takes a different approach than guitar, and many guitarists don't find it easy to do (or don't realize that they're doing it poorly). Yeah, it's easy to play the root notes, but many guitarists have difficulty with the timing aspect of playing those notes, and it really throws things off. I'm speaking pretty generally here, not just about my friend, and recognize that there are some guitarists who take to bass well.

It takes time to be beginner proficient with bass... and it's only really easy if you can't hear that you're fucking it up

easy to pass? your not getting shit passed me mother fucker! try to fake it along and i'll take that "dum dum" stick away from you and tell you to GET TEH FUK~!
a good example of the bass "coloring" a song would be most of the velvet underground tunes where there are literally 2 chords and 4 changes between them. the bass carries alot of the melody, since the vocals were usually more of speaking monotone. don't get me wrong, i love luo reed and it worked for him and that band and the time frame.
saying the bass is "easy" or you can fake it rather easily just proves that you should never be allowed to hold a bass.

sorry but i stick by what i said. its easy to pass and i think there's a misunderstanding about where we're all coming from. you're all talking on higher levels about technique, feel and skill and im talking right down at the bottom end of skill, as in playing roots and simple runs etc probably with a pick. to fulfill the very role of playing bass in a band. what you're talking about is not "passing", you are talking about "being good" or accomplished.

of course there is a world of technique and skill behind bass and it requires years to perfect. im just saying the initial bar of being able to get up play is easy to pass.

robert(original) wrote: saying the bass is "easy" or you can fake it rather easily just proves that you should never be allowed to hold a bass.

this might also be true

George wrote:sorry but i stick by what i said. its easy to pass and i think there's a misunderstanding about where we're all coming from. you're all talking on higher levels about technique, feel and skill and im talking right down at the bottom end of skill, as in playing roots and simple runs etc probably with a pick. to fulfill the very role of playing bass in a band. what you're talking about is not "passing", you are talking about "being good" or accomplished.

of course there is a world of technique and skill behind bass and it requires years to perfect. im just saying the initial bar of being able to get up play is easy to pass.

No. Basically (no pun intended), to "pass" at bass, you must have a sense of time and keep the feel of the song. This is a prime function of bass. It's not just playing lower register notes. Therefore, technique, theory and experience aside, if that isn't achieved, it's a fail. One that even non musicians would notice.

edit: the complexity of the bass line has nothing to do with it either.

Well how good of a band are we talking about? Timing is important for any musician

A bad guitarist or drummer will be noticed more than a bad bassist in a typical rock band mix in my opinion.

Key term in that argument is "typical rock band", something anybody would struggle to pigeonhole these days.

"Easy to pass, impossible to master" applies equally to guitar/bass/drums/keys when you're in a crap ensemble. You're never "done" as far as learning an instrument is concerned, no matter what it is.

IMO, bass is easy to start, difficult enough to play meaningfully and imaginatively, hard to master, and nearly impossible to master and also not become a douche about it in the process.

But yeah, all instruments are impossible to master. Piano is probably the easiest instrument in the world when it comes to learning your first song on it. Yet, because it's easy to be passable at it, you're expected to do a lot more as a pro. I think the thing about bass is that a great bass player has to be a great musician that understands dynamics and how to sit back and listen to everyone else. You can have a great guitarist who seemingly never listens to anything but himself (cough EVH), but do that for bass and it's just awful.

aen wrote:Bass, sure, it's easy to plunk out some shit. But to actually play it as an instrument is 100x harder than playing guitar. Your shitty guitar technique might sound fine, but throw that at a bass, and you sound like a real idiot. The dynamic range (even on an electric bass) is so much broader than a guitar, it demands a much higher level of control. Then, if you're playing with a band, there's the challenge of actually playing good notes. A guitar can flip flap around the time, bend shit notes into good ones, and generally wail because it's a very expressive, vocal instrument. But few thing sound worse in a rock band context than a guitarist shitting all over the bass.

Yeah, you have a point there but you know something else?

Most people can't play a simple rhythm guitar worth a shit either. And most guitarists I've met couldn't last six bars in a non-rock groove. I mean, how much finesse can people develop when people are turning their 50 watt amps to 8 regularly?

I'm not saying I'm great at guitar or bass. But I'm a much better bass player than a guitar player, and yet I am never allowed to play bass in any of my bands because good guitarists are harder to find than training someone to be good enough on bass. Just sayin'.

Like here's one of our songs:
http://soundcloud.com/mittensband/heart-of-me

We recorded pretty much all the instruments (minus third guitar) in one ensemble setting, so this is one solid take. This girl had been playing bass for maybe 6-7 months when we recorded this demo (Mustang Bass, too, not coincidentally... because it's mine). When you listen to the bass carefully, you can hear where it could be better, notes aren't even, etc. But overall, is it the weak point of the song? It sounds way better than it would if the guitar or drums were being done by a beginner. More importantly, what could a world class bassist do to this song that would be so much better, anyway? Would any of that improvement be worth the headache of having another ego in the room?

back to the matter at hand. . .

Slayer

honeyiscool wrote:IMO, bass is easy to start, difficult enough to play meaningfully and imaginatively, hard to master, and nearly impossible to master and also not become a douche about it in the process.

In my opinion this goes for any instrument.

just the bass a little more

I played guitar for 10 years and it just didn't seem to click. I was always good with the jazzy/rhythmic type chord stuff in a support type of role with a full jazz band. Put me in a rock style format where the guitar is carrying things and it's awful. I cant solo for shit. My buddy was in a band with a really tight/progressive style drummer and they needed a bass player. I found it really easy to just pick up the bass and play it like a guitar, but in that supporting role like i did in jazz groups with an actual guitar. Playing with a tight drummer makes is pretty easy to pick up bass in go with some basic understanding of fretted instruments and what roots work over things. Knowing how chords work from playing guitar, i can apply the shapes to bass and a lot of times i'm not playin the root, but something in between that harmonizes with everything. So i guess im saying that bass isn't easy, but if you're a decent rhythm guitar player it's pretty easy to just step in and make it passable. Now, back to 'dem titties

dots wrote:back to the matter at hand. . .

► Show Spoiler

Suddenly seems considerably easier to masterbass.

where are her other fingers?

robroe wrote:where are her other fingers?

palm muting her meat drapes?

I will watch anything with emma stone in it. I love her, she's definitely one of the hottest women in hollywood and she seems really cool and down to earth to top it off. Her and Mila Kunis are the most beautiful actresses in hollywood in my opinion, and they're also two of the celebrities that my fiance seems to be cool with me ogling every time I see them.

Also, I definitely agree that there is an art to playing bass well that standard guitar technique does not apply well too. Every once in a while the singer/guitarist or the drummer in my band will pick up my bass and while they're both good at guitar, they both sound horrible when they play bass. Well, maybe not horrible, but definitely not good, even when they are just playing root notes, the technique is what does it.

there are few things better than a good bass player

and

nothing worse than an amazing bass player

honeyiscool wrote:IMO, bass is easy to start, difficult enough to play meaningfully and imaginatively, hard to master, and nearly impossible to master and also not become a douche about it in the process.

This, very much so. Playing bass bored me until I realized there was more to it than just pounding away on the root of every chord. Once I figured that out, my songs were stronger for it. There are so many harmonies and things you can build in to even a simple rock song with a good bass part; it was a tool that I let go to waste for too long.