ShortScale.org

This isn't quite a copy in the traditional sense, but I still think it's worth mentioning.

So, there's a few pedals that purport to clone the old Ampeg SS and VH series. There's the PLXfx Spirytus Distortion and the S&K VHD which are almost spot-on clones of that amp's channel A, there's also the Amptweaker TightMetal which was developed by James Brown from that same design but adds a load of additional features that increase the design's versatility. Out of these three the PLXfx is the one with the most reasonable price tag, so if New York death metal/slam is your thing, get the PLX and save $100 or more.

http://plxfx.bigcartel.com/product/spirytus-distortion

http://www.snkpedals.com/product/vhd-d ... eamp-black
http://amptweaker.com/product/tight-metal-pro-ii/

Dave wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2013 8:46 am
electro-harmonix Pog 2/Micro Pog
Mooer Pure Octave

I referenced this list when I was looking for a bi-amp octave. I bought the Mooer. It was okay. As a pure bassist replacement, it sounded a bit off. It sounds like a bass through a chorus pedal.

I picked up a TC Electronics Sub n Up (Mini?), and that sounds far better. If you're looking for something cheaper than the POG, I would suggest this one instead. Get the Toneprint edition, you can edit the effect via a phone app, which I was skeptical about, but it is pretty awesome. You can also remap the pots to control other aspects of the effect, which is just amazing. I highly recommend this over the Mooer.

The Tender Octave mk1 was an actual clone of the Micro POG; the firmware actually had EHX references still left in it haha

Mooer got sued, and then released a mkii that isn't as good. All other cheaper octaver/pitchshifters suckkkkkk.

Yeah, there are some fucking howlers in that (admittedly, nine year old) list; like the very first one listed is wrong (although the Mooer Trelicopter is a Tremulator clone, if you want one).

Is it worth adding a big "buyer/Pens Beware - this list hasn't aged well" banner on the first post?

(also, I have a v1 Tender Octave and I fucking love it).

BearBoy wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2013 12:31 pm

finboy wrote:Does joyo make a clone of the tech21 Oxford?

The Oxford is an Orange sim isn't it? Don't think Joyo/Harley Benton make ones of those currently. They just make the Fender, Vox, Marshall and Mesa-Boogie ones.

Suspect it may not be preying on his mind after almost 10 years but, if Finboy's still interested, Joyo do now make a clone of the Tech21 Oxford: LANK

Doog wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:16 pm The Tender Octave mk1 was an actual clone of the Micro POG; the firmware actually had EHX references still left in it haha

Mooer got sued, and then released a mkii that isn't as good. All other cheaper octaver/pitchshifters suckkkkkk.

Ah, I see. Well, at least it was cheap.

I've been fine with the Sub'n'Up, but then I mostly just looking to add a thicker low end to my sound, and bi-amp without a bassist. It's not truly the same, but it works for me. Is the POG that much better?

benecol wrote: ↑Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:13 pm Yeah, there are some fucking howlers in that (admittedly, nine year old) list; like the very first one listed is wrong (although the Mooer Trelicopter is a Tremulator clone, if you want one).

Is it worth adding a big "buyer/Pens Beware - this list hasn't aged well" banner on the first post?

(also, I have a v1 Tender Octave and I fucking love it).

I could edit the first post, I thought about doing that before I made my post above.

I've had both, and the SubNUp has a lot 'woofier' an octave down; the POG by comparison is quite 'metallic' (in both octaves), and does a lot better - or punchier, at least - into distortion with the normal signal. I'd guess that the SubNUp would work great with less distortion, as a 100% octaved signal running into its own amp.

I went on 'must replace MicroPOG for something smaller' mission a few years back, and the POG still won for me; even EHX's own offerings (Nano POG, Pitchfork) don't compare as well as there's some minor latency that the MPOG just doesn't have;' I'd guess the required chips are spendy.

I got an Boss OC-5 recently for my new band board and it rules; it sorta sits between the two extremes, and by putting a dummy plug in the 'direct out', the pedal mutes in bypass, so you've got a BASSIST/NO BASSIST footswitch; the dream.

Pens wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:00 am I could edit the first post, I thought about doing that before I made my post above.

I sort of think the value of a thread like this has shifted. Ten years ago we were amazed that there was suddenly a stack of cheap pedals that did all the things our expensive pedals did. Now, that's common knowledge and everyone knows that they can get clones of pretty much any gear they can think of, not just pedals.

We know that the boutique emperor has very much shed his mojoclothes. So to speak.

Doog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:36 am I've had both, and the SubNUp has a lot 'woofier' an octave down; the POG by comparison is quite 'metallic' (in both octaves), and does a lot better - or punchier, at least - into distortion with the normal signal. I'd guess that the SubNUp would work great with less distortion, as a 100% octaved signal running into its own amp.

I went on 'must replace MicroPOG for something smaller' mission a few years back, and the POG still won for me; even EHX's own offerings (Nano POG, Pitchfork) don't compare as well as there's some minor latency that the MPOG just doesn't have;' I'd guess the required chips are spendy.

I got an Boss OC-5 recently for my new band board and it rules; it sorta sits between the two extremes, and by putting a dummy plug in the 'direct out', the pedal mutes in bypass, so you've got a BASSIST/NO BASSIST footswitch; the dream.

Gotcha. It did take some messing around with the SnU in the Toneprint app to get a patch that worked for this purpose. Most of the patches have modulation effects on them, I had to find one that didn't and then modify that further with the EQ and other stuff. I found I had to mix at least some dry signal into it to get something decent, but yeah distortion is mostly out on that line. I keep it clean, it's main purpose is to just add the sub octave to whatever I'm playing. I guess it's a bit like playing a baritone guitar or something. It's definitely not the same as having an actual bassist, but it does solve the problem of low-end without having to deal with bassist drama.

A buddy of mine is also doing the bi-amp thing, I asked him for advice on the setup. He uses a simple passive splitter pedal he asked me to build for him, and I'm probably going to build one for myself, just simple on/off for each line for turning off either bass or guitar. I considered making a passive ABY box for myself, but I haven't decided which I would prefer. I suppose I could easily change it between each switching config if need be, it's just simple wiring at that point.

I'd recommend using a LS-2 or something to electrically separate the signals so you don't end up in Ground Loop City; I used to use a passive splitter and it caused headaches at a few gigs.

Pens wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:05 pm bassist drama.

HEY!

Doog wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:59 pm I'd recommend using a LS-2 or something to electrically separate the signals so you don't end up in Ground Loop City; I used to use a passive splitter and it caused headaches at a few gigs.

I also get some cross talk from my passive splitter. Fine for my use case (switching between amps to use the same pedalboard, but with only one amp switched off) it wouldn't be all that useful if I wanted to run two at once.

I had a Mooer Pure Octave on my board for ages, definitely not as "clear" sounding as a Micro POG, and the tracking was sometimes a little bit off, but it was close enough for my purposes. It shit the bed after maybe 8 years (not bad going IMO!) and I replaced it with a SubNUp. It's a major improvement vs the Pure Octave, and I guess I've kind of assumed it's probably a pretty close comparison to a Micro POG (I went for the SubNUp just because of the price). I would be intrigued to do a direct A/B.

The fuck is wrong with the electrical system in the UK? My dude Dave has been touring around the US and using the passive box I made him for somewhere around 6-7 years now and has never had this problem. His pedalboard has even gotten further complicated with 3 separate boards, for guitar, "bass", and keyboard. I asked him specifically about what box to use and he said the one I made him has never caused him any problems at all.

A ground loop is caused by two ground lines being of different voltages. Both amps being plugged into the same circuit would have the same ground voltage. I have no idea how the problem you guys are describing could even be a thing unless you have multiple AC sources coming into the same building, or some seriously jank-ass wiring at your venues.

Pens wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:19 pm seriously jank-ass wiring at your venues.

You answered your own question!

If you’re playing a venue that isn’t ground loop city then you’ve sold out.

Coincidentally the only venue I can think of here that has this problem is CBGB, and that's only for the PA as it's on a different circuit than the backline amps are on. So the mic shocks you a bit when you go to sing. I just put a foam pop filter on my mic and don't worry about it. The amps themselves are on the same circuit and don't have this problem, though. They might have even fixed the wiring at this point, I haven't played there (or anywhere) for 5 years.

I've managed to get ground loops* using two amps in stereo from the same pedalboard, even though everything was plugged into the same outlet from the wall. As far as I know or understand**, that's not possible.

* - possibly not a ground loop, but a different issue that was solved by using Lehle P-Iso to isolate one amp.
** - electronics baffles me, an issue that is exacerbated by most of my "knowledge" of it coming from internet lore.

If it was from the same source, then its something else, just basic interference. This is probably being filtered out using these pedals, using signal-isolating transformers or something like that, which also solves some of the same issues that are caused by ground loops.

I could post the simple schematics just from wikipedia, but I don't know if that really helps explain it. A ground loop is caused by two different sources of current while the ground has different resistances, which results in a voltage differential between the to, and thus they aren't truly on the same ground anymore. This allows the interference that is usually dumped into "ground" to not be grounded anymore, so it can then bleed into the signal wires that are right next to it via inductance.

If you are getting noise while plugged into a single source, then it's not a ground loop, it's just poor shielding, or a broken ground somewhere. I just recently was picking up radio in a pedal I built, because instead of removing some wires I just taped the ends of them and left them connected, which allowed them to act as antennas to pick up radio, injecting it into the signal path.