ShortScale.org

I wonder if this stuff will ever sound 100% natural?

It's definitely a technology improved by running different parts into different distortions and then amps (based on my own experience), and the tracking and latency are decent, but even after the 47 years since the Eventide H910, it's still not quite gonna fool anyone.

Still feels like there's a missing step, maybe something needs to happen in the algorithm EQ-wise to balance out the shrill pitch-ups and the flubby boomy pitch-downs?

Either way, it's definitely a Pitch Fork killer; I love that they've finally added in a 'bend time' control, something that the Pitch Fork required an expression pedal to do.

doog wrote:The shrill pitch-ups and the flubby boomy pitch-downs?

But these are the best bits!

This could be the best pedal in the world but the marketing/video turns me off. I don't know why EHX seems to be stuck in the 80s when it comes to videos. It must work for them I guess but its just awful. Its like Mumford and Sons never happened.

Also intelligent Harmony pedals I can't use because I don't know fuck all So just as well it has the poly mode. Doesn't seem to be doing anything much different to the whammyz ps5 or pogs really.

Hurb wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:31 amIts like Mumford and Sons never happened.

Sigged

Yeah, I agree to an extent re: their Bill Rupert demos, it's like they got a low blood sugar Johnny DeMarco show you the ropes. Although, to be honest, I appreciate it that they're marketed a bit more tools rather than some lifestyle product. I'm an ancient man who knows pedals; I don't need to be wowed, just show me what it can do.

Maybe it's all about a balance. For half of the video, they could get Mike Matthews on board, stogie jammed in his maw, running his Rhodes through it, throwing up his hands and getting red-faced:

"AWW HELL, I DUNNO; I THINK THAT JABRONI FROM FLORENCE AGAINST THE MACHINE USED SOMETHING LIKE THIS??"

Bacchus wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:11 am

doog wrote:The shrill pitch-ups and the flubby boomy pitch-downs?

But these are the best bits!

Don't get me wrong- that stuff's great too, but when they're showing stuff like this used to emulate different tunings/instruments, why not go a little further? Shrug.

Capo mode ftw

I don't think I've ever really used a pitch shifter effect without heaping a ton of distortion onto it, so the artificialness isn't something that stands out too much to me. My POG isn't a bass, it isn't a church organ, but it certainly sounds kind of like somebody took one of those things and forced it through a Marshall amp. Which is what I want.

Harmonisers are down on the other end of the scale for me. They're kind of designed for proper musicians who don't just wing everything and actually know what they're doing.

I'll quite often use a couple of pitch shifters plus to put things up and down a few octaves, so that it usually ends up on the same octave as it begins. This, plus dirt, reverb, modulation, delay etc all to introduce different artefacts. The intention is to end up with something that has a different timbre than a guitar. The idea of using them to make it sound like your band has another guitarist (ugh), is pretty far from my mind.

Aye, fair enough, but when it's just a bit more code, porque no los dos?

I wonder how different the algorithms for these polyphonic pitchshifters genuinely are. I think the POG was kind of a gamechanger in how much it allowed you to do, but was it basically just a bit of a refinement of the mono algorithms and just given a boost in processing power in order to be able to do all those organ sounds and stuff? It kinda makes that whole EHX vs Mooer battle seem a bit silly if there's little difference going on behind the scenes.

But it also makes me think of all that stuff with the Rockband guitars and Roland's guitar synths. Roland are a massive audio company to us, but in terms of really fucking massive companies like Sony or even Nintendo, they're small fry. So Roland spend something like 40 years trying to make guitar-based synthesis "a thing" with fair-to-middling results for the majority of that time. Then a games company decides that they want to make a Guitar Hero-type game that uses an actual guitar so... they just do it. Like, 40 years of research ends up looking like a bedroom-based ZX Spectrum game development process. It just illustrates the difference between the respective R&D capacity of those companies.

What we need is Nintendo to have a good look at that pitch-shifting code...

that's resultant of the respective r&d teams' motivations as much as anything, i would think. roland has been trying to faithfully recreate sound for musicians, so they're going to take a different approach than a video game company trying to create an experience for gamers.

ekwatts wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:53 pm So Roland spend something like 40 years trying to make guitar-based synthesis "a thing" with fair-to-middling results for the majority of that time. Then a games company decides that they want to make a Guitar Hero-type game that uses an actual guitar so... they just do it.

umm




Maybe I'm missing something, but this is literally just a controller to trigger samples/MIDI guitar sounds in a predetermined order; live pitch-to-MIDI is an entirely different kettle of John The Fisherman

They did a later version with an actual guitar as the controller:



I assume that's maybe what Eric is referring to?

A-ha! That makes more sense.

That said, it'd put money on it just being pitch to MIDI, and by the sound of it (watching some of this guy's other videos), it's pretty basic and glitchy; it's not beating Roland at their "own" game at all. Ultimately, it is still just triggering those predefined sounds (or that fun CLANK bum-note harmonic) in the game, which makes it a way simpler ask.

MIDI pickups have gotten pretty good (even the old GK-3 I have is reasonable), but managing and converting all of the physics of a real guitar string is always gonna tricksy and error prone, harmonic complexities and all that.

ekwatts wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:53 pm I wonder how different the algorithms for these polyphonic pitchshifters genuinely are. I think the POG was kind of a gamechanger in how much it allowed you to do, but was it basically just a bit of a refinement of the mono algorithms and just given a boost in processing power in order to be able to do all those organ sounds and stuff? It kinda makes that whole EHX vs Mooer battle seem a bit silly if there's little difference going on behind the scenes.

I mean, polyphonic pitchshifting has been around for ages too, but it just didn't sound good; lots of weird wobblies and latency.

Mooer literally copy-pasted the code out of the Micro POG; it still had the EHX copyright notices in it!

I've played a LOT of pitchshifters, and the MicroPOG is still a favourite; nothing EHX have put out touches it for low latency, not even the pedals that came after it! I A/B'd the Nano POG and PitchFork with a MPOG, and it still won on that front, even with its slightly weird clanky tonality. The latter might be the reason it's got such low latency, by not doing additional filtering/refinement of the sound.

I must say that when it comes to pitch shifting, the Digitech Drop is pretty good for detunes. The only "harmony" it does is octave down.

Doog wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 10:02 amI've played a LOT of pitchshifters, and the MicroPOG is still a favourite; nothing EHX have put out touches it for low latency, not even the pedals that came after it! I A/B'd the Nano POG and PitchFork with a MPOG, and it still won on that front, even with its slightly weird clanky tonality. The latter might be the reason it's got such low latency, by not doing additional filtering/refinement of the sound.

Have you tried the TC Electronic Sub N Up? I bought one recently to replace my Mooer Pure Octave which had shit the bed. I like it a lot but I'm quite surprised by how different a "character" it has. I actually think it colours the tone in a more pleasing way than the Mooer (although it took some getting used to) but I just wouldn't have expected there could be this amount of variation in a straightforward octave up/down effect.

Yeeeah, I had the Mini for a little bit, but found the Poly mode octave down VERY, uh, subby (like huge amounts of low end detail), and it didn't work well with my setup and usage. The octave up was quite rounded-out and "pleasant" too, which made the comparison with ol' familiar MPOG all the more jarring.

I had a very brief play around with the TonePrint software at the time (have since used it more with the Flashback 2), and I likely could've addressed my concerns with a custom patch loaded onto it, but something about relying on a user present only restorable via software made me nervous. I guess the phone app can probably store your custom stuff though, making it less an issue?

Yeah, I haven't played around with the TonePrint at all yet, but the stock settings are definitely more bottom-heavy than any sounds I was able to get out of the Mooer. So far that hasn't been an issue in Beige Palace, I guess because we don't have a bass player. And then I'm unsure how much I'll end up using it in my Thank live setup.

Hurb wrote: ↑Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:31 am Its like Mumford and Sons never happened.

I don't know what this means. I've never heard them. Do they have a lot of Iron Maiden dual guitar attack?

Yes