Need More Amp Advice NOW WITH PIC!!!! (answered)

[Yarko]

So I've experimented with my Hot Rod Deluxe and I found it to sound kinda dry, not enough tone. So I've decided to sell it and buy an Orange Tiny Terror or something better. Since I bought my Hot Rod for $400, I put it up for $650. A guy is gonna check it out tomorrow to see if he likes it, for $600. Back to my question, I found a Twin Reverb Silverface from the late 70s, CBS era. Here is the lank. The guy is willing to sell it for $650, but I was wondering if I should go with it? I read some stuff about the master volume knob sucking the tone out of the amp and the speakers being mushy and other unflattering characteristics. Many mod theirs to the blackface specs and replace the master volume pot. I might still buy this amp to experiment some more, for such an awesome price. Advice, go!

[Haze]

I'm not a huge fan of the HRD amps but I wouldn't consider a Tiny Terror an upgrade. The cleans on the TT won't hold up those of the HRD. If you want a small valve amp for crunchy goodness then the TT is great! But it's a shame to have such a great amp and not use it for what it does best.
The SF Twins are great amps. A pain to lug around but great! I wouldn't worry about doing any mods to it as it would generally decrease the value of the amplifier. My SF bassman has a master volume and it's great for having the channel volume on 10 and the master on 3 or so. It's great for valve breakup on lower volumes.
As far as price goes it's about the going rate for a SF twin. Make sure you find out if it's been services recently (caps/tubes mainly) and what year/circuit. Some of the early SF amps have BF innards.

[kypdurron]

I won't vote against a SF Twin (wait for Mike to do that ), as I play one myself over ten years now and am satisfied with it . Mine is an earlier model, which means that is has "only" 100 Watts. I considered to sell it and go for a smaller amp (Vibrolux or something like that), but as the smaller SF Fenders exploded in price, while the Twin did not, I didn't do it.

The one in your link is marked as the late 7ties 135 W version, which is considered to be less desirable than mine or earlier versions without push-pull-Master Volume, But when it comes to how they actually sound, it's no big difference imho. Those Twins sound very unique, trebly and bassy, but not much mids - compared to a Hot Rod Model, I would say more elegant / less rough, with less punch. It is difficult to set them up in a way that seems to play in front of a mix - you always cut through, but you never sit on top of it in a Band situation. Something like that. Just be aware of that a 135 W Twin won't really give you any breakup. It does one (clean) sound, it does a massive reverb (much fatter than the Hot Rod) and a tremolo. If you like that one sound, go for it - if not, go for something else. And yes, they are quite heavy, heavier than the current reissues. But the Hot Rod is heavy, too - both amps are nothing I'd like to carry around for long time.

So. I'd say:

+ More Power than you will ever need
+ Built like a tank
+ great, classic Fender cleans and reverb
+ sounds good with pedals
+ rather cheap and won't lose value if treated good
+ easy to service for a tech

- Really (!) heavy
- not very flexible in sounds and features
- louder than needed in most situations
- tube exchange can be expensive

An alternative might be a speaker upgrade for the Hot Rod, if you don't sell it. The amp sounds not bad - those Eminence Fender special design 12's are ok, but there are better options around.

[Mike]

If you found the HRD to be stiff in the cleans, then more than likely you're going to have the same issue with a Silverface Twin.

[Yarko]

I actually have a celestion vintage 30 speaker in my hot rod, so it doesn't need replacing imo. And I don't really need tube break up in my amp, I'll get a good boost pedal soon. A blues driver or a MBM Saltbooster. This price for a twin reverb is quite appealing here in canada, other twin reverbs go for at least $800 to $1000. I'll probably just have this in my basement and not have to carry it around too much. I don't know if I will buy it, but I will most definitely go and try out the Twin Reverb.

[analogsystem]

Are you playing in a band? Do you need to be loud as hell? Need reverb? If so get the Twin.
Not so worried about headroom? Like to have a way overdriven head and use your guitar's volume to clean up? Like Amp distortion? Try the TT.

They are very different sounds with almost zero overlap.

[chisa]

here's some sounds from mine:

[youtube][/youtube]

[filtercap]

The 135-Watt Twin -- same amp as mine. I've done a lot of mods on that amp, so I know it pretty well. Some thoughts:

-- Point-to-point wiring, baby. If by experiment you mean =experiment= then this is a big plus.

-- If people don't like the amp, it's not the fault of the Master Volume knob. Do not fear the Master Volume. It's has a hi-frequency semi-bypass that you may or may not like; easy to snip if you don't. There =is= the "pull-boost" feature which gives you a mildly horrible overdrive if -- and only if -- you pull that knob out. But you can either leave the knob pushed in or else remove the boost circuitry and optionally replace it with a pretty decent fat-boost mod.

-- The ultralinear output transformer on the 135W Twin is a thing of beauty. It's heavy and people like to get in a bad-internetz-fueled snit about how it's supposedly stiff-sounding. Do not fear the ultralinear transformer. It may emphasize the amp's weak spots, but if one can correct the weak spots it'll emphasize the amp's strong points, sounding huge & detailed at the same time. The transformer and speaker jacks permit both series and parallel speaker wiring, something interesting to explore.

-- The preamp layout and component values are identical to the blackface AB763 Twin. Why this remains some huge secret is beyond me. The reverb circuit is a bit different from blackface, and this may affect tone/gain on the final stage of the Vibrato channel somewhat.

-- The power tubes are biased cold. They stay clean, but may sound brittle and harsh in the highs. This, not the master volume or the transformer, is where the amp's bad reputation comes from. Bias is not adjustable without modifying the amp. (You can balance the bias between the power tube pairs, but you can't adjust warmer/colder.) If I made only one mod, this would be it. Warm up the power tube bias, and it'll make a huge difference.

-- This power supply is probably the highest-voltage they ever put in a black/silver Fender. This, combined with the UL transformer (and the cold tubes) keeps things very clean. With two power tubes pulled and the master volume dimed, you can get some power amp breakup at about nine million decibels. Some messing with the power amp section can give you compression/breakup at more reasonable volumes.

-- The stock Fender speakers are why companies like Eminence are there for you. Adjusting the bias may be all it needs; I'd look to the speakers next.

[taylornutt]

here's some sounds from mine:

[youtube][/youtube]

Nice Demo. I love the Small Clone and The Wiggler. I have those on my board too. I don't think the Wiggler has a bad setting on it and the Small Clone is the best chorus pedal ever. Only downside of the Wiggler is that is pedalboard space hog but well worth it.

[Mike]

With two power tubes pulled and the master volume dimed, you can get some power amp breakup at about nine million decibels.

hahaa

Interesting about the bias.

[Yarko]

Well, I bought the twin reverb and sold my deluxe. and got my mustang today. great day. everything is great, love the sound, better than the hot rod by far. oh yeah, the mustang is awesome too. now I need some pedals. damn. here is a pic (pardon the crappy cell res):

[cobascis]

Well, I bought the twin reverb and sold my deluxe. and got my mustang today. great day. here is a pic (pardon the crappy cell res):

Liking the setup -- what are your thoughts on the amp?

[Yarko]

it's pretty awesome. when I was the guy's house, the reverb made such a lound hum, i could barely stand it. but I overcame that and bought it anyway. when I tried it in my basement, there was no hum from the reverb! miracle.

[cobascis]

it's pretty awesome. when I was the they guy's house, the reverb made such a lound hum, i could barely stand it. but I overcame that and bought it anyway. when I tried it in my basement, there was no hum from the reverb! miracle.

so musta just been his house? anyway congrats on the amp. demo?

[Yarko]

I don't know, maybe some time later. and i don't have a mic to do a proper demo.

[Aeon]

I love mine. Think of these amps as a sonic canvas -- they take pedals extremely well, let the character of different guitars really go through, and don't color the signal with too much of their own compression/distortion.

I play on the vibrato channel. Volume depends on venue, bright switch off, treble 4, mids 8, bass 4/5 depending on venue, reverb 2-3. I find these settings work well with my single coil guitars. For humbuckers I usually add a bit more highs and drop the mids to 5-6.

[Yarko]

I love mine. Think of these amps as a sonic canvas -- they take pedals extremely well, let the character of different guitars really go through, and don't color the signal with too much of their own compression/distortion.

I play on the vibrato channel. Volume depends on venue, bright switch off, treble 4, mids 8, bass 4/5 depending on venue, reverb 2-3. I find these settings work well with my single coil guitars. For humbuckers I usually add a bit more highs and drop the mids to 5-6.

Do you also have the 135W one? I will definitely try those settings out.

[filtercap]

+1 on Aeon's settings; I often do something like Treb 4 Mid 7 Bass 4, and turn the Bright switch on. That keeps the treble under control but still adds some sparkle up above the general range of the Treble knob.

[Doog]

not enough tone.

Haha, what??

[kypdurron]

if you like the sound, you didn't do wrong. Maybe because of current tube configuration, my amp is not THAT clean sounding as usually told, so I have bright switch on (no massive difference though), treble around 6 or 7, mids on 4 and Bass on 3, Volume between 6 and 8 (depending on guitar output) and Master - for rehearsal - between 3 and 4. You read a lot about cranking the Master all the way up and adjusting volume with 'Volume' ... it sounds interesting, but I'd call it the "brutal" setting. You hear that your power section is fully cranked up then, you get some unwanted noises and an awful lot of peak. Dig that amp while you can, it might overlive you ...